economic collapse how to survive?

psy-ops

psy-ops

Joined
Sep 27, 1999
Messages
3,164
with all this current stock trader fraud happening.......and some other elements coming into play, lets say onething leads to another and the stockmarket crashes big time.

how do you survive?

if you are renting do you move or work a deal with your landlord?

if you are in a city?

I know I might have my extra early warning on but humor me :footinmou
maybe things won't be as bad a the great depression but maybe you lose your job and have to get a low paying one.

I think my wife and I would have to move to her parents land way south of here. start a garden and buy ammo. maybe trade for some chickens or something.
 
If we're assuming it's a market crash caused by fraud or lack of confidence in wall street the best survival strategy would be to jump in at the bottom or as close to it as possible.If however it is a true economic collapse,complete with currency devaluation and a breakdown in social services....well,ammo might be a really great investment,stabilized gas or better yet diesel in well sealed containers might be another and some long term food storage wouldn't hurt either.I doubt the stock market would bring on a scenario like that,I'd be more concerned with government debt getting out of hand followed by a recession caused by the inevitable tax increases leading to hyperinflation and the collapse of the dollar....been predicted before,and I wouldn't expect it 'til after the next democratic administration when the boomers start retiring.
 
Stuff like this came up a lot in 1999 because of the Y2K scare. I had given thought to the renting situation since I was renting at the time. I looked at it like this.

If there really was some incredibly bad break down to the point where nobody was taking checks or anything but cash realistically what is a landlord going to do. Only accept cash and demand that everyone else in the complex move out? Nobody's going to move in. The housing situation would be so bad that there would be no realistic way to force people to move so frankly if it really was that bad I think that everyone would just suck it up and wait for things to normalize.

As for stockpiling...I don't think its worth it beyond a certain point. Each one of us just has to decide what point is worth it to them. To me...building a shelter and spending thousands on gas and dried food pellets is not worth it.

I think that its far more likely to get uncomfortable than to get unbearable. Then it will be a matter of which of us can learn to get by with different resources...not who has stockpiled the most bullets.
 
Start working on your road warrior type vehicle ASAP. I've already got the steel spikes welded all over my civic. Anybody have a spare rocket launcher?
--Josh
 
the landlord thing was most on my mind. My wife and I have a garden and a pretty good community of people so all in all things could actually improve if the financial market collapsed. but then we have a land lord and CC debts, How would those organizations get their money?

would we become indentured servants?

eventually the debt issue will come to ahead, it is like a loan shark went n vacation then when he gets back he wants his money NOW!

would we have to kill our loan shark?
 
chrisaloia-- I think the answer to your question depends on how bad things really get. If society completely collapses, I would imagine collecting rent will be the last thing on your landlord's mind. Where is he going to spend the money anyway? If times are tough but society is still holding together, things might be a little different. Depending on your particular landlord, you might be able to work something out in terms of bartering. Maybe he has other properties and needs someone to do some grounds or something. You might want to research how people coped with the great depression; times were extremely tough, but many pulled through. If you are seriously planning on homesteading on your wife's parent's property, then you might want to look into long-term survival as opposed to emergency short-term survival. Stan and Holly Deyo's site Has some interesting info on homesteading/pioneer style living. Be warned, they have some strange ideas about UFO's and other stuff, but there is a ton of info on their site about "primitive" living-- everything from raising livestock to heating your home with wood.
--Josh
 
Originally posted by Josh Feltman
Be warned, they have some strange ideas about UFO's and other stuff,... --Josh
Click to expand...

*Looks a Josh's Avitar*

Have some strange ideas about UFO's...hmmmmm. Not sure how we should read that warning...:D
 
Originally posted by Six String Samurai


*Looks a Josh's Avitar*

Have some strange ideas about UFO's...hmmmmm. Not sure how we should read that warning...:D
Click to expand...

:D LOL. I didn't even think about that. All I meant was that there is some info on the site besides survival, and I didn't want chrisaloia or anyone else who is interested to dismiss the site because of it. There really are tons of great links and info about a variety of long term survival topics.
--Josh
 
financial experts are saying that these companines collapsing due to fraud are just the tip of the ice berg.

there is alot more to come:eek:
 
A complete collapse would bring martial law and cerfews first.
Then all the utilities would be nationalized with the food supply chain
and all commercial services soon to follow. Ration stamps would
become the new money along with government script to control the
movment of the entrire population. You can forget going very far from home
without a pass or papers. Personal freedoms along with due process of law
would all be a distant memory.

In short America would no longer be the land of the free as we know it today.
If you don't believe me ask yourself just how G.W. managed to "get" the
supreme court on his side so quickly. Some elections are honestly won ,some
are just "manuvered" into. Proving you don't have to win........... to win.

Politics makes for ugly strange bedfellows nowdays. And yes Mable, the men
in black DO exist. (and I'm not talking about those in the movies.)
 
I have given this some thought actually (well, who hasn't?).

I think Tightwad has got it pretty close. The monster (Federal gov.) is too big to just let thousands of us wander off into the wilderness and build tee-pees (unless you get out really fast)and start armed communes. Put, we never really know do we?

Back to what to do...

I figure the following would help no matter how bad the situation becomes:

1. eliminate all debt, except those absoulutely necessary (ie-mortgage). Stop buying new cars, trucks, etc. and learn to drive what meets your needs. Forget new DVD players, stereo's, etc. forget the toys and go enjoy developing skills that will really help you some day-heck go excercise!

2. Stop 'collecting' knives (right-I know this one may be tough-sorry :D). Have several good blades that meet any expected need in duplicate at least. USE THEM, you must know how to get the best out of every blade; by limiting the number available to 'play with' you insure that when\if the time comes you won't stumble over which one to take and which to leave. Make sure this covers every mature family member and your spouse. Get a good sharpening system or stone and make sure everyone knows how to use it. Unfortunately, you as the head of househould (I am assuming)may not always be there. Don't forget a good axe, hatchet, machete, files, hones, fire strikes, and spare parts if necessary.

3. Stop collecting Firearms. Jeff Coopers concept of a Scout rifle (one weapon=many applications) seems very sound to me. Get a good rifle-and SHOOT IT. Limit your personal weapons to a few rifles in the same caliber. A pistol for every mature family member in the same caliber. A .22 pistol and at least one .22 rifle. And at least one good 12 gauge shotgun setup for hunting\defense. This limits your need for ammo to only four calibers. My personal setup includes: .30/06, .45ACP, .22, 12 gauge, but should use what is comfortable or affordable for you. Make sure each weapon has a proper cleaning and maintenance kit. Next take these weapons somewhere and SHOOT THEM!!! Too many weapons lay around, and their owners never learn how to properly care, feed, and shoot them-this has the potential for disaster. Consider a reloading setup. Relatively cheap, and effective way to cut ammo costs. Also if the crisis gets to the point where you have no local gun shop to run to, you will need to know the skills necessary to reload.

4. If you want to stockpile something-stockpile GOLD. Always seems to have some value, relatively easy to store or move and easily converted back to 'green backs' if needed.

5. Keep one vehicle totally road worthy and full of gas at all times (within reason :) ). Because "you never know". Have emergency plans and kits ready to toss into this vehicle at a moments notice. You may have to run and grab the wife and kids and head for the hills.....or out of the hills...think of the forest fires burning right now.

6. Consider-NO-TAKE-first aid classes and CPR at your local community school or college. This is one activity you will never regret and will always use.......

Everything else boils down to your own personal emergency plan. How far you take it is up to you. Where you live, and the conditions you will most likely encounter will determine what your storage needs etc. will be.

Keep it realistic and dare I say 'fun'. Make it a family activity. It will give you an excuse to take the family out for a day at the range, or camping, or for a hike instead of renting a movie and sitting in front of the BOX-this to me is quality time, and will serve them the rest of their lives.

Mongrel
 
Mongrel makes some very good points. However, they all
depend on being allowed to carry any of them out.
That's right allowed to carry them out.

In the event of a collapse our government would implement
martial law overnight with national guard enforcement. All
assets would be frozen and all travel restricted. All State
government agency would be transfered to federal control to
ensure the movement of the general population was not an "at
will" arrangment.

Own a gun?? I don't and I won't. Not now. ANYONE who owns a
firearm will be the subject of an effort to remove those guns
and gun owners from the general population. Think they don't
know who you are?? Yeah, right. The FOI cards and ammo buying
records take care of that.

Need some way to hunt?? Buy a non traceable ADULT air rifle.
You can store years worth of ammo in a 5 gallon pail or coffee
can. No noise , no records , no tracablity, nada. You are mystery
man that can hunt.

Keep you car full of gas? Where will you go? Do you have permits
to travel? Are the roads open? You get the picture.

So if the sh!t hits the fan the best route to take is to lower
your profile to blend in as best you can until you can figure out
how to work the new "system". If you want to survive the early
hours of martial law.........Don't get noticed!!! Uncle Sam will
be looking to "examples" to make.
 
I agree with the low profile thing.

would debtors just say "good bye to those millions that the american people owe" or is it possible they can use the government to make us work it off?

if they can cage us like tightwad says then they can make us work it off. yes or no?
 
Originally posted by chrisaloia
if you are renting do you move or work a deal with your landlord?
Click to expand...

Let me give my perspective, as an Evil Landlord(tm):

The area I live has over the past year suffered a ~30% economic downturn. I own a bit of commercial & residential real estate. Many of my commercial tenants no longer have the cash flow to pay their rents. This is an isolated, small area - there aren't dozens of businesses lining up waiting to move into available spaces.

So, I ended up cutting them all deals. Some are paying me partially in trade. Others are carrying a balance, and will hopefully pay me later. Some I have just outright reduced their rent. The previous rent levels are just too high to last in the current economic downturn. That's life as a landlord. I'd rather have a full building, with reduced rents and stable tenants, than an empty building, or high turnover.

I suspect you'll be able to work something out with your landlord - unless he wants to move into the space himself.
 
If you can afford to move and change your lifestyle & job then do it now. Otherwise, unless you have good bug-out plans you need to prepare to shelter in place.

The low-profile thing is MAJOR.

If there's a disruption in utilities like phones & electric then debtors won't be calling you but you won't be using the credit cards.

Cash will be king and I'm not sure there's anything you can do if you're renting unless you're close to the landlord. I rent but I've known my landlords since I was a little kid - I grew up with their son and I get a deal because I help take care of the building. Provided I get at least 2 hours notice - I'm outta here!

Around here I don't have to show ID to buy ammo - thankfully. Plus I reload.

Visit: http://www.preparednessnetwork.org/northstar

There's packing lists and a link to the forums and you can sign up for a monthly newsletter. There's also an open online meeting every month where everyone get's together and chats about current affairs and some preparedness/survival topic like training, first aid, camping, skills, etc.
 
Thanks for the great advice,

Bae, maybe you can have them spar off the money. a good training partner is worth their weight in gold.
also thanks for answering my specific question about the landlord issue.

NorthstarXO, thanks for the link and sound advice.


I have the gear and bug out plan in pretty good shape. my main concern is the reaction of others in this scenario. especially if things don't get really bad but bad enough to be squeezed.
 
Originally posted by chrisaloia
I have the gear and bug out plan in pretty good shape. my main concern is the reaction of others in this scenario. especially if things don't get really bad but bad enough to be squeezed.
Click to expand...

I think this really depends on the community in which you live. As I mentioned previously, my own community has already been experiencing a huge economic downturn. And we started out with the lowest wages in the state, with a lot of folks already on the margin, working 3-4 jobs to make enough to live.

However, we are a small, isolated area. People have pulled together to help out their neighbors - making housing available, providing food and childcare, making land available for gardening, lowering rents, providing professional services for free for those who need them, offering low interest loans, and so on.

I think if you pick your community carefully, you might not have to bug out.
 
"I think if you pick your community carefully, you might not have to bug out."

Very true. Just be ready to be self suffiecent and know all the folk's on your block.
A sad a tale as this leads to in time the military will visit where you live to see if
is worth bothering with. That's where the low profile comes in hard.

Have food , water, meds, etc. laid by and you will do ok for awhile. If you want
to see what can really happen to good people study history of the 30's in the U. S.
and in Europe. It doesn't matter if it's 1930 ro 2030 people will always behave the
same under stress of economic instablity. Self preservation will rule for most.
 
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