EDC, in "bad" areas...thoughts please, RSK?

J

josywales3

Joined
Jun 3, 2005
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147
Sorry if this thread has been hashed out before, but a "search" left me wanting for more answers.

I have recently purchased Ritter's Rsk Mk1 and Mini. Each has it's place in my world and I especially like the Mini for EDC. My question is, sometimes I am forced to travel into, well let's just say areas of higher probablility, with regard to risk level and my .45 is not an option. The Mini would be better than nothing for sure, but what would be an ideal carry/tactical knife for these situations. The RSK Mk1 seems a bit big to carry as EDC, even if only rarely.

I read where one fella really liked his H&K Benchmade Emerson CQC7...and of course as we sometimes do, made the huge mistake of selling : ( Though not made anymore, I'm sure one can be had, if not with the H&K logo.

Any thoughts you all have of the above knife or what you believe would make a nice compromise of EDC/Tactical would be appreciated.


"Honey, when I die, sell my guns and knives for what they're worth and NOT what I told you I paid for them."
 
Don't go to those bad areas. If it is truly a bad area, then the inhabitants will have guns that will laugh at your knife.
 
Silenthunterstudios. Well...not THAT bad. It's the difference between going to a suburban mall, or riding the subway EL into the city (where work is). Believe me, if I could carry a CW into work everyday, I would. And the answer to your next questions is, yes, I am looking for another job.

So, with that in mind, any ideas. Or is the point still mute and any knife will do, since it has no gun powder?


"Honey, when I die, sell my guns and knvies for what they're worth and NOT what I told you I paid for them."
 
Before carrying it make sure you are willing to use it.

Carry something that is legal.

Carry something that you use often enough to have opening it locked into muscle memory.

Carry it the same way and in the same place every time.

Carry two of them if possible with the second accessible by your weak hand.

Get some training.
 
Yes, get real training, not just reading a book, and be prepared to drop your knife if the situation calls for it.
 
In one word:

Pepperspray.

But if it simple must be a folder--the RitterGrip is just fine, as is the Benchmade 551 Griptilian.
The Spyderco Endura is also outstanding.

Of course, if you want a knife than might appear more friendly toward a jury, consider the Spyderco Rescue with orange handle or the Spyderco Atlantic Salt with yellow handle.
Nothing evil looking about those knives.

Good luck,
Allen.
 
The more I read on here, the more I think it's a bad idea to try and use a knife for self defense.
 
WadeF said:
The more I read on here, the more I think it's a bad idea to try and use a knife for self defense.
Click to expand...

No, it's a bad idea if you don't know what you are doing. If you have been properly trained, it should be a last resort.
 
"No, it's a bad idea if you don't know what you are doing. If you have been properly trained, it should be a last resort."

Foremost, I don't think a knife is the best weapon for self defense mainly because you need to get very close to you opponent (always a dangerous thing) and there is always the threat of getting disease infected blood all over you (which could eventually end up being fatal).

And there are also the legal ramifications:
You will probably have to PROVE that there was no possible way to avoid stabbing or hacking the attacker, that there was no way to run or avoid the encounter.

I love knives, and I have had some training in using a blade, but I still would'nt use one unless I had no other option.


But I disagree with the notion that you need special training to effectively defend yourself with a knife.
I think that marital arts promoters and "knife fighting advocates" have pushed this notion for so long that some folks think that a knife in untrained hands is more dangerous to the knife user than the attacker.
You hear this alot in gun "experts" too.
Stuff like "without training, you'll probably have your weapon taken from you and used against you".

I think that is total nonsense.
I see folks nearly everyday in the ER that got "knifed" by an untrained person--the effects very from minor cuts and band-aids to a one-way-trip to the morgue.

Just some thoughts,
Allen.
 
Roshi/Silenthunterstudios,

Getting training is sound advice for sure. Muscle memory, etc., were all a part of the training with my .45 and along with great instructors, produced excellent results. The willingness to use a gun/knife is another issue entirely and I hope I don't digress my own thread on this.

Like a gun, the use of a knife has ramifications-legal, mental, etc. and only a fool takes them lightly. The justified use of a gun by a citizen will most likely cost that citizen in excess of $70,000 just to clear up the legal "mess" that will ensue. Not always, but it could. In fact, formal training could actually increase the risk of litigious liability!

With formal training, one is held to a higher standard than if they picked up a kitchen knife and used it in self-defense. That said, the trained will have a much better chance to survive and I guess I'd rather sell my house to defend my self (in court), then be six feet under.

Though I have been hunting/shooting since 10 YOA, I thoroughly enjoyed the firearms training, as well as the personal protection courses offerd by our club and sanctioned by the NRA. I have found both the classroom and hands-on portions to be educational. Unfortunately, I missed the knife portion of the class, which included displaying knives and demostrations on how quickly a knife wielding attacker can close distance and attack. 21 feet in the blink of an eye if I remember correctly. Also, as I recall, 21 feet is the distance where lethal response is warranted in such a situation.

Bottom line, I'll take bullets over blades anytime. I guess I wasn't viewing "this" knife as a weapon, but rather a "I'd rather pull this and take my chances, than just let this idiot take me out." Perhaps additional thought is warranted. Or, where lawyers are concerned, perhaps not. Perhaps I'll pull my Rsk Mini and later say, "It was all I had, I don't know much about CQC with a knife and I'm not sure how he got those 52 holes."
 
Yes, last resort is correct. Even if you carry a .45 and can do it, RUN!!!!! It's much cheaper and you're life won't change...perhaps drastically.
 
allenC said:
"No, it's a bad idea if you don't know what you are doing. If you have been properly trained, it should be a last resort."

Foremost, I don't think a knife is the best weapon for self defense mainly because you need to get very close to you opponent (always a dangerous thing) and there is always the threat of getting disease infected blood all over you (which could eventually end up being fatal).

And there are also the legal ramifications:
You will probably have to PROVE that there was no possible way to avoid stabbing or hacking the attacker, that there was no way to run or avoid the encounter.

I love knives, and I have had some training in using a blade, but I still would'nt use one unless I had no other option.


But I disagree with the notion that you need special training to effectively defend yourself with a knife.
I think that marital arts promoters and "knife fighting advocates" have pushed this notion for so long that some folks think that a knife in untrained hands is more dangerous to the knife user than the attacker.
You hear this alot in gun "experts" too.
Stuff like "without training, you'll probably have your weapon taken from you and used against you".

I think that is total nonsense.
I see folks nearly everyday in the ER that got "knifed" by an untrained person--the effects very from minor cuts and band-aids to a one-way-trip to the morgue.

Just some thoughts,
Allen.
Click to expand...

I agree allen.
most stabbings occur with piece ofshit knives by people who have no training whatsoever, and the victim usually doesn't see it coming. An extremely small percentage, or even a tiny one, of knife wielding assailants have some training, and usually that was learned from 1. other criminal associates 2. during incarceration, or 3. from trial and error (read: they've stabbed someone before)

If I am attacked, mugged, etc, I will use whatever means at my disposal to keep myself or my loved ones safe. I work in a profession that almost requires me to carry a knife, and if that is what is at hand, then so be it.

In all of the fights I have seen or been in, all were spontaneous, fast, and over within a 10-30 second time frame, and two of them ended in knife assaults. There was no time to get into a defensive stance, and no one saw the knives when they were used until it was too late. (one was a ca. legal automatic that I personally found on the floor afterwards. I turned it over to a police detective friend who was in the bar)

Training is good. I have some. But most fights will be over before you can get your knife out.

That's my 2 cents.

Peter
 
Peter/Allen, I tend to agree with you. When things go bad, they go bad quickly. With guns, when drawing from a holster, I believe tunnel vision takes place. At that point, training and muscle memory will determine the outcome. During training, we shot in the dark and most novices shot better. They did so, because they were not focusing on sights, distractions, etc. They simply brought the gun up and fired (muscle memory).

That said, as you, I am not convinced the same is true for knives. Then again, I am not very knowledgable on that topic.

Feeling as you do, Peter, what knife would you recommend as a compromise between the Ritter and tactical? I'm starting to think that if I'm grabbed from behind, I would drop down and a Ritter across the back of the knee could be as effective as anything. No need ot buy a compromise.
 
use pepper spray and then RUN....if they catch up to you or you are cornered after the pepper spray.......then use a knife like an endura or a manix.....then more pepper spray.......... then Run again!! :)
 
josywales3 said:
Peter/Allen, I tend to agree with you. When things go bad, they go bad quickly. With guns, when drawing from a holster, I believe tunnel vision takes place. At that point, training and muscle memory will determine the outcome. During training, we shot in the dark and most novices shot better. They did so, because they were not focusing on sights, distractions, etc. They simply brought the gun up and fired (muscle memory).

That said, as you, I am not convinced the same is true for knives. Then again, I am not very knowledgable on that topic.

Feeling as you do, Peter, what knife would you recommend as a compromise between the Ritter and tactical? I'm starting to think that if I'm grabbed from behind, I would drop down and a Ritter across the back of the knee could be as effective as anything. No need ot buy a compromise.
Click to expand...

I carry an endura at work (commercial fishing) and therefore it's in my pocket religiously. I use it hundreds of times a week, so I'm pretty comfortable with drawing and opening the knife by reflex.

I am not a martial artist, police officer, etc, and have no military background.
I live in a fairly large port city in the northeast, and with that comes the colorful element inherent to the waterfront.

However, there is VERY little gun crime in this area, and most fights are fistfights. Most knives around here are tools first, and crappy knives at that.

Spyderco is my brand of choice and the endura is a flagship model. I carry a fully serrated frn handled one. It is always sharp, and I've tested serrations against cloth, and if they are sharp, they usually don't hang up. The point, although slightly blunted, still penetrates fine.

I'd think that any tactical/utility knife from a decent maker would suit your needs. The only way to get the reflex of drawing and deploying the knife is to practice practice practice, or in my case, actually use the knife day to day.

If you are grabbed from behind, and held around the throat, or in a bearhug, even a delica, or smaller bladed knife would be fine for cutting a forearm or stabbing a thigh to get the opening to escape. You aren't going to stick around to finish them off.
The main thing is to be aware of your surroundings, and if you are, and are confronted or attacked, and the knife is your only means of defense, you should have the knife with you, be able to get at the knife, and be willing to use the knife in order to get away.

My 2 c.

Peter
 
One other thing-

someone mentioned EDCing an atlantic salt or rescue. I've found that a sheepsfoot could be an invaluable self defense blade shape, as it is designed, like a wharncliffe or hawkbill, to draw the cutting medium along the edge of the blade. It is useless for thrusting, but instinct with a knife, for a lot of people, is to cut, and with an arm around your throat from behind, you could easily use a sheepsfoot blade to cut at it, without the added danger of injuring yourself with a point.

cheers
Peter
 
Peter, I agree and have posted that running is always the best strategy. Can you recommend a good treadmill?? Kidding! But it brings up another good point.

I see a lot guys duiscussing survival knives on this site an others. I can't help but wonder, are they in the kind of physical shape that one would need to be in order to improve chances of survival in the outdoors. I can teel you that with 4 kids, from infant to teens, I have at least 20 pounds I could shed. I might start a new thread on this topic. Thanks
 
Spyderco Endura Waved, excelent weight, strong, excelent blade size and the Emerson wave feature.

Excelent folder.
 
roshi said:
Before carrying it make sure you are willing to use it.

Carry something that is legal.

Carry something that you use often enough to have opening it locked into muscle memory.

Carry it the same way and in the same place every time.

Carry two of them if possible with the second accessible by your weak hand.

Get some training.
Click to expand...

+1, and carry the same thing all the time. That way, when the prosecutor asks why you decided to carry THAT knife on THAT day you can honestly tell him/her that you carry the same thing everyday.
 
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