Edge holding: Queen D2 and Case CV?

G

gomipile

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Apr 17, 2010
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I'm looking at buying a sodbuster. My choice is between the Queen Country Cousin in D2 and a Case Sodbuster in CV.

I know how to take care of a CV blade, so the "semi-stainless" properties of D2 are not terribly relevant to me.

What I am interested in is how these two makers' heat treatment on these specific steels compare for edge retention. For a specific metric, I'll be using this knife on cardboard a fair bit, so how do they both hold up cutting heavy-duty corrugated paper?
 
The D2 will take longer to properly sharpen but once sharpened will hold the edge significantly longer due to the wear (abrasion) resistance properties of the steel / heat treat.

I don't have any tests to point you to but I believe that Frank (knarfeng) may have some specifics he can share from his own tests performed with both steels.
 
The other thing to consider, between the Case soddie and the Country Cousin, is the difference in thickness at the edge. The Case is a very thin, hollow grind. The Queen is a flat grind, and considerably thicker near the edge. The thinner edge on the Case, combined with it's easier-to-sharpen CV, will make touching it up much simpler. The Queen, if it comes from the factory with i't's typical' thick/obtuse edge, will take considerably longer to sharpen up, because more of that tough D2 will need to be removed. Especially if you completely re-bevel the edge (and most of us have, I think). Once the Queen has a good bevel on it, it's a fantastic user with a stout blade & great steel. If you're comfortable with undertaking the re-bevelling it'll probably need, I'd highly recommend either or both of these knives. The good news is, neither is very expensive. So it's not too unrealistic to have both of 'em. :)
 
I forgot to add, regarding your original question about cutting cardboard:

As my Country Cousin is now (after re-doing the edge, mine is convexed), I'd recommend it over the Case, for cutting heavy cardboard. This type of task is where the abrasion resistance of D2 really excels.
 
... just get Country Cousin... and set of diamond hones or else you will spend 26 hours reprofiling and sharpening D2 like I did... :D Still country cousin is very nice ! Also country cousin has usable edge and its not almost spey like Case's.
 
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gomipile said:
I'm looking at buying a sodbuster. My choice is between the Queen Country Cousin in D2 and a Case Sodbuster in CV.

I know how to take care of a CV blade, so the "semi-stainless" properties of D2 are not terribly relevant to me.

What I am interested in is how these two makers' heat treatment on these specific steels compare for edge retention. For a specific metric, I'll be using this knife on cardboard a fair bit, so how do they both hold up cutting heavy-duty corrugated paper?
Click to expand...

In this case it isn't the heat treat, it's the alloy. D2 will hold an edge far longer than CV on cardboard. D2 has loads of chromium carbides in it. CV does not. The chromium carbides act like rocks in concrete. They provides wear resistance. The wear resistance of the D2 is so much greater than that of CV that, unless the heat treat were a total foul up, D2 would still hold an edge better. Queen does not foul up the heat treat.

Cardboard is a very abrasive medium. Wear resistance makes a big difference.

I also agree with thinning the edge bevel. Queen tends to use a fairly flat edge angle (feels like about 25° per side, though I've not measured.). The D2 will support a much finer angle. 15° per side is what I use. But, do make sure to have diamond hones before changing the angles.

I have both Queen and Case Sodbusters. The thickness of the edge right above the bevel on each is ~0.022". So, once you change the edge bevels, they should be similar enough in geometry that the alloy difference will predominate in the performance.
 
I'd suggest getting at least a medium or even a coarse grit diamond hone for reprofiling D2 -- even fine grit diamond hones are really slow when you have a fair amount of D2 to remove.
 
My 81 year old dad commented just yesterday that his Queen D2 (Canoe) goes an unusually long time without sharpening.
 
I don't have any knives with D2 blades. One of the reasons is that I've heard that D2 is prone to chipping. Can anyone clear that up? If chipping isn't a problem, I'll give it a try -- maybe on a Queen.

I've never had a problem with keeping a CV blade sharp over time but then again I keep a stone in my truck, on my desk, and generally have a short 3" or 4" stone in my back pocket. Just a habit I developed when I used to use a knife daily on a ranch or farm or while in the Navy.
 
Like the others have said, D2 will hold an edge much longer once you get it sharp. Jani makes a good point about the blade profiles of the two knives. The Queen has a pointer tip than the Case does, which makes it better for piercing cuts.

Ed, I've got knives with D2 and haven't had any chipping issues. They have been used for anything I would expect a knife to cut including a fair amount of cardboard and a little whittling.
 
ive had a few blades with D2 and have never had any chipping. the D2 on my Queen canoe performs very nicely. holds an edge like no other. i would recommend re-profiling the edge though.
 
Modoc ED said:
I don't have any knives with D2 blades. One of the reasons is that I've heard that D2 is prone to chipping. Can anyone clear that up? If chipping isn't a problem, I'll give it a try -- maybe on a Queen.
Click to expand...

Ed, every good, high carbon content steel used on knives is prone to chipping if the heat treatment and tempering is not done correctly. As the alloy content is increased in a steel, the more precise you have to be in the heat treatment and the more ways that the HT can be screwed up by folks that only sorta know what they're doing, or who have equipment with insufficiently precise temperature controls. Queen does a good job (actually I think they have Peters do their D2 HT -- so it's really done right). All the D2 knives I've had have proven plenty tough - even when running into unexpected heavy steel staples in boxes.
 
Thanks for the replies guys. I think I'll order a Queen (maybe a Stockman) and give D2 a chance. I've got a nice set of 6"x2" diamond bench stones from DMT in Coarse, Fine, and Extra Fine, grits which should make the edge reprofiling many of you have mentioned fairly easy -- quicker anyway.
 
My only experiane with d2 was with a benchmade and it was not a good one at all, it came sharp but with a very obtuse edge Im getting some diamend rods for my sharpmaker for my harder steels The way I ended up sharpening it was with the humble carbide draw through sharpener, it took off the shoulder so I could atleast put a 45 degree edge on it
 
knarfeng said:
I have both Queen and Case Sodbusters. The thickness of the edge right above the bevel on each is ~0.022". So, once you change the edge bevels, they should be similar enough in geometry that the alloy difference will predominate in the performance.
Click to expand...

That's interesting. My Sodbuster Jr's edge, just above the bevel, is maybe 0.012" or so, compared to my Country Cousin at about 0.025" (twice as thick).
 
Beats me. I measured 'em both before I posted.
 
I could be very wrong but I think I remember ready about D2 at least 30 years ago.
I've used several Case knives in Trusharp, CV and the odd Case in what I think is 440a. Of these my choice would be 440a, CV and Trusharp in that order.
I've needlessly avoided D2 because of it's reputation (as much as Queen's) to my detriment. Not any more. D2 is great stuff and seriously better than Trusharp or CV IMO. Maybe it's the heat treat but regardless, D2 is makes a better working blade than CV.
 
The only downside to Queen's D2 is that it'll probably arrive dull and you'll need some pretty course stones to get it sharp. I haven't had a problem with it chipping, but then again I don't use slipjoints as prybars or for batoning.
 
I was cautious about D2, and my actual first knife was a Queen Country Cousin. In a "one in a thousand" shot, the knife came sharp from Queen! As a work knife, it went immediately to the jobsite. With my heavy acid sweat, I was able to raise up tiny rust flecks in fairly short order during our 100 degree summers here, but nothing that didn't practically wipe off. So good there.

More importantly, it is a great steel for a work knife. As noted here in previous posts, it will hold a great edge as long as just about any steel out there, and this I know from practical use. With that in mind I bought a couple of more Queen traditionals, and the Queen D2 is great on all of them.

Later, I bought my first Kershaw (JYDII combo) with D2 as its edge. Outstanding knife, and outstanding blade. EXCELLENT work knife. So followed the G10 Tyrade with D2. All good.

I decided I really liked D2. So when looking for new camp knife, I ran across the RAT7 in D2. Folks on this forum and others warned loud and long about chipping, so I was concerned. Too late, the knfie was on the way. Then I saw this, and it really put my mind to rest about the "chipping issue" and D2.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jvEkdJJ9wuk

After watching that video, I went out and tried that exact test on mine. No chipping, no rolling, no problems. I was relieved I didn't goof up the knife, but really impressed as well. Bought an Ontario RAT5 in D2 after my own test.

D2 put the traditionals back in my pocket during the summer. In the winter I can carry my odler 1095 stuff with no worries as I don't sweat that much. But now I can carry my D2 blades knives and enjoy a similar feel to 1095 when cutting (imagination?), but don't have to worry about the knife rusting in my pocket before the day is out.

I am already eyeballing my next Queen traditional, and you can bet it will be in D2.

Robert
 
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