Edge pro for final sharpening?

Bfusmc03117

Bfusmc03117

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Dec 29, 2008
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So I finished what I would consider to be one of best knives I have mad so far. Keep in mind that is not very many, about 10 or so. But I digress.

I finished my fit an finish portion and am on to sharpening. I was going to use the belt sander to get down the edge quick to save time. But I'm worried my lack of expierence will slip and mess up this blade that I feel is coming out so great. So I tried my edge pro apex and it's taking FOREVER! I'm no were near the sharpness I would like and I'm already a few hours in. Started with 80 grit stones with 3 in 1 oil. Was wondering if anyone uses an edge pro for final sharpening. And if not what is a more efficient or better technique/ method?

Thanks again . Everyone's advice and help has been greatly appreciated. I'm honored to get advice by such renowned and talented makers. I'm very thankful.
 
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Your cutting edge (secondary bevel) may be too thick before you started sharpening. How thick is it? I shoot for about 0.015". My guess is the thickness is the issue.
 
I have yet to check the thickness. I think I will do that next chance I get and put that in my post. That would of been a useful piece of information for me to include.
 
I even take the 0.015 down and set the final bevel angle but not to where a burr is made, and then go with the edge pro. Some steels it can take a long long time. Run the belt slow as possible, have a guide to help determine the angle and one or two smooth strokes across the belt
 
DMT has 120 grit diamond sharpeners for snowboards and skies.
I start off with one of them then follow with diafolds (black/blue, red/green, strop)
 
What edge angles will the Edge Pro Apex produce? Are they using diamond, ceramic or tungsten carbide abrasives?
 
If you have the bubble jig you can set your angle and then gently kiss the blade to the belt and gently pull it across edge. It will produce an even grind on both sides and then you can finish it if you like with your edge pro.
 
Fred.Rowe said:
What edge angles will the Edge Pro Apex produce? Are they using diamond, ceramic or tungsten carbide abrasives?
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I can't remember the available angles, but it ranges very widely. From maybe 10° per side (possibly lowrr) up to...? But waaaay more obtuse than I'd *ever* use in any application.

There are many many choices for abrasives from many different sources. One of the best things about the EP is that you can make your own. EP sells the aluminum blanks to mount whatever you want. They also sell strops, diamond pastes and films.

For just some of the many abrasives check Chefknivestogo.com

There are also a few mods for the system to make it better. Magnets for the table, quick change spring, and drill stop collar to aid in accuracy/consistency come to mind. I believe all of which can be found at the store I mentioned. I just bought the rare earth magnets at HF, and stop collar at Lowes, although HF has those too.

Edit- the 6" DMT plates fit in the holder too.

There are about a billion videos on all things EP on YouTube. ;)
 
The bubble jig looks great I'll have to invest in that. My grinder is not a variable speed and now in starting to realize how a variable speed grinder can come in handy.

Now once you guys take off the majority of the metal to get to your almost desired thickness what is that thickness usually? And at that point do you start normally hand sharpening? And if so what is your progression in stones?

I've read a lot of people just use the belt sander for final sharpening and then leather strop. But I would like to just use the belt sander to remove majority of the material and then when at desired thickness begin to hand sharpen. Instead of using the machine for the whole process.
 
First off, THANK YOU for your service! :)

It sounds to me that your edge was too thick. For me, edge geometry is one of the most important elements of every knife I make... so that is actually part of my grinding technique. IMHO, a full flat grind that is ground as thin as possible, and then convexly feathered into an edge, is the ultimate geometry.

I like to sharpen freehand on stones. There are a million and one ways to sharpen, and most knife makers seem to favor their belt grinder... but I don't for a couple reasons--- Even with variable speed and fine belts, things happen pretty fast. Also, except for the handful of knives I've sold to other makers, none of my customers have a belt grinder, but many have some kind of stones. So it's easy for them to follow up whatever I do, with their own tools.

A blade that is ground thin, with a constant concentration on final edge geometry, should be really quick to sharpen... even in super steels like 3V. I usually have a burr raised during my final finish grinding.

My hand finishing work is actually part of the geometry refinement as well. Dan Farr told me that about 13 years ago, but it took me a few years for it to REALLY sink in.
 
One more thing.

It's very typical to hear something like, "Never sharpen a knife before it's finished, it should be the last step you do."

I disagree. You need to know if you have the grinds where they need to be to have a sharp, finely tuned slicing instrument BEFORE you spend a ton of time on finish work and the handle. You can gently dull the sharp edge so you're not working with a razor, and take steps to stay safe, like keeping the blade wrapped/taped when you can, and using a sanding support that helps keep your hands away from the edges.

Hope this helps out a little! :)
 
NickWheeler said:
First off, THANK YOU for your service! :)

It sounds to me that your edge was too thick. For me, edge geometry is one of the most important elements of every knife I make... so that is actually part of my grinding technique. IMHO, a full flat grind that is ground as thin as possible, and then convexly feathered into an edge, is the ultimate geometry.

I like to sharpen freehand on stones. There are a million and one ways to sharpen, and most knife makers seem to favor their belt grinder... but I don't for a couple reasons--- Even with variable speed and fine belts, things happen pretty fast. Also, except for the handful of knives I've sold to other makers, none of my customers have a belt grinder, but many have some kind of stones. So it's easy for them to follow up whatever I do, with their own tools.

A blade that is ground thin, with a constant concentration on final edge geometry, should be really quick to sharpen... even in super steels like 3V. I usually have a burr raised during my final finish grinding.

My hand finishing work is actually part of the geometry refinement as well. Dan Farr told me that about 13 years ago, but it took me a few years for it to REALLY sink in.
Click to expand...

Thank you very much I greatly appreciate it.

That is outstanding advice, I love the idea of a full flat grind an think I will start trying to put those on most of my knives. It makes sense to make sharpening 1) on a stone so common person can sharpen it and 2) nice and quick so the blade can get back to its job .

As for your progression in stones what would you recommend? I have a spyderco sharp maker, an edge pro , and my older smith tri-stone. Will those suffice or would it be beneficial for me to invest in some diamond stones or perhaps those 2000/4000 stones I see advertised? I'm not familiar with to many stones.

Once again I appreciate all the advice . And Nick Wheeler I'm humbled to have received frequent advice from such a renowned knife maker as yourself. Truly inspirational. And thanks to everyone else that is always helping me out .
 
Is there any concern about changing the temper at the very edge/apex when using power tools for the final step?
 
awestib said:
Is there any concern about changing the temper at the very edge/apex when using power tools for the final step?
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I was also worried about this with the belt sander. With the edge pro I was using oil generously to prevent that. I am hoping it wouldn't effect it
 
Bfusmc03117 said:
I was also worried about this with the belt sander. With the edge pro I was using oil generously to prevent that. I am hoping it wouldn't effect it
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Be careful using mineral, or any oil with EP stones. I did exactly that and my 120 grit separated from the aluminum blank. When I asked about it, the advice was to use water (or nothing) with their stones.

I'm not sure how other manufacturers attach them to the blanks, but Ben uses something that looks like a soft setting glue. I reattached it with an all purpose glue that is resistant to the problem, but I haven't used it with oil again. I simply use water now, and still get good results.

A grinder will destroy the temper quickly if you're not careful, but most manufacturers do it with decent results. There has been a lot of talk about over-heated edges from some buyers lately though.
 
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