1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.

Edge Pro: reprofiling and removing convex edges

Discussion in 'Maintenance, Tinkering & Embellishment' started by Bo-dacious, Jul 3, 2018.

  1. Bo-dacious

    Bo-dacious

    408
    Aug 13, 2016
    Hey guys, I have a question about the Edge Pro's ability to remove a lot of material. If I used the 120 grit stone, could I reprofile an edge in under 15 minutes or so (both sides)? If not, how long would it take? (time is important as I want to open a knife sharpening business at some point). How about changing a convex edge to a V edge? If not the stone, what about the diamond plates? Are they more course than the 120 grit stone? Any other tips for reprofiling a knife on the edge pro?

    Thanks guys,

    Bo
     
  2. Wowbagger

    Wowbagger

    Sep 20, 2015
    Which 120 stone ?
    Depends on what steel you are using it on.

    Here is a worst case :
    This 120 sucks and is too soft. It is a "Shapton". After being wet a while just in use it gets softer and softer.
    So that's the worst case stone.
    IMG_3602.jpg

    Obvously S110V is one of the worst case blade materials but I just free hand 'em on the big 10 inch DMT 220 (extra coarse) stone and it takes no time at all. (yes the blue side is up but the black 220 side is on the back of it.

    There are extra, extra coarse diamond plates for the Edge Pro that should make up for size so you could try one of those. If you are talking a much larger blade then you can extrapolate from there.
    IMG_4747.jpg
     
  3. miso2

    miso2 Gold Member Gold Member

    Nov 19, 2014
    It depends on the consistency of the factory edge and what magnitude you want to change.
    May take a few minute, 15 min, 1 h, or more.
    For example, going from factory 18 DPS to 15 DPS would take a good hour depending on the original grind, what stone you use, and the material you remove.

    If you plan to remove a lot of material, I suggest you invest in diamond stones or use a lot of coarse silicon carbide sandpaper.

    In my experience, Edge Pro #120 silicon carbide stone goes very rapidly.
     
  4. Wowbagger

    Wowbagger

    Sep 20, 2015
    What is it with these makers and their overly friable coarse stones ? ? ? ?
    A genuine Shapton such as this 120 Pro is perfect (cuts fast, stays flat a long time because it does not wear rapidly and doesn't glaze) it is cutting the heck out of this CTS-XHP ! ! ! and not wearing much.
    That other junk is extremely frustrating.
    IMG_3712.jpg

    Hey . . . here's a thought . . . over in the other thread(s) people are ALLLLLL about the Ken Onion belt sander. Reprofiling is the only use for it I could think of . . . if you can keep the blade cool enough. When I go to town and thin an entire blade spine to edge I use a large, cool running power grinder and use a lot of water and dip super often. I wonder how those little belts would like that ?
     
  5. miso2

    miso2 Gold Member Gold Member

    Nov 19, 2014
    Hmmm....
    Sounds like I should try Shapton Pro coarse stones...

    Edit: $44!!! Too expensive, considering that it comes back to Japan via Russia. Wish I could buy them directly in Japan......
     
    Last edited: Jul 3, 2018
  6. Wowbagger

    Wowbagger

    Sep 20, 2015
    Less money than an extra coarse DMT which isn't even as coarse.
     
  7. Bo-dacious

    Bo-dacious

    408
    Aug 13, 2016
    Wowbagger: which 120 stone comes with the edge pro apex 4 kit? That's the one I'll be using because they say that's what it's for. So I'll try it anyway.
    I'm trying to avoid bench stones because I feel they're a hassle.(I know this is crazy, maybe I'm doing something wrong, just the way I feel). With the soaking and the levelling. I feel it takes more time than the actual sharpening and time is a factor. That's just the way I feel about it.

    Miso2: so I should use the diamond stones to reprofile an edge? And is that 120 the one the edge pro apex 4 comes with?

    Wowbagger: yes, I have a work sharp Ken onion and it's the best thing I've found for reprofiling. The problem is once you put that convex edge on it takes more work to get it back to a V grind edge. That's what I've found.

    Thanks guys,

    Bo
     
  8. Blues

    Blues Lapsed SuperMod / Cattle Knife Rustler Staff Member Super Mod

    Oct 2, 1998
    The 120 grit stone that comes with the Edge Pro Apex is a silicon carbide stone.

    The info is right there on the Edge Pro site.
     
  9. Mo2

    Mo2

    Apr 8, 2016
    Before starting a business, get good at it first. Get good at different blade grinds too like re curves, compound grinds and different steel types.

    There's a modder currently out there that started his business two weeks after getting a wicked edge and he does horrible work. He never learned or cared, just wanted the cash. Now when someone else gets his work to fix it, they can tell it was him.

    Don't learn on other people's stuff. Sorry to say this but I was disappointed when I received mine from him and others had to pay someone else to fix them. Just don't like this to happen to others.

    I don't think it's something you can just jump into with no or little experience prior. Even I'm still learning. It's great your getting as much info as possible and that shows way more interest than some people.
     
    Last edited: Jul 4, 2018
    PeterS84 and kwackster like this.
  10. bgentry

    bgentry

    Aug 3, 2009
    You'll want to think about how much you want to make, how much you will charge per blade, and how much time you estimate it will take you, on average, to sharpen.

    Basic sharpening of inexpensive blades is normally some kind of flat fee like "$3 under 5 inches, $5 for 5 to 10 inches". Or $1 per inch. But that's "basic sharpening" that doesn't pay particular attention to making the bevels perfect and symmetrical. No mirror polish for that price.

    There are other people with very expensive blades that will want a perfect hand sharpening. No scratches and perfect bevels. Still others with high end kitchen knives will want a particular finish. Or want their blades done on Japanese water stones. A member here called OldNavy has done quite a bit of business with this later model.

    Higher end sharpening pays more. But also takes more time and more effort, as you normally do it by hand only. The Edge Pro might be suitable for jobs like this. For basic sharpening, you want something powered that is quick. Something much more powerful than the WSKO. Like a 1x42 belt sander, or maybe a 1x30. The 1x42 is supposed to be better overall, but I don't own either so I'm just saying what I have been told.

    Figuring out what kind of sharpening you want to do will guide you to the proper class of equipment. Doing basic sharpening on an Edge Pro seems like the wrong match to me, as the amount of time and effort are too high for your average kitchen knife that hasn't been sharpened in 20 years.

    Good luck to you!

    Brian.
     
  11. Bo-dacious

    Bo-dacious

    408
    Aug 13, 2016
    Mo2: yes I have a long list of things I need to get good at before I start my business.
    I want to be very good before I start the business, so I am taking my time for sure.
    I practice on my own knives. Sometimes I use good knives to practice on good steel but I get my basics down on $10 knives usually.
    I have sharpened knives for family members and friends and they have all loved my work and given be bonuses. But I still know I have a long way to go.
    And yes I'm very interested. I spend most of my day studying knife steels or anatomy or whatever. And practicing sharpening.

    Bgentry: yes I have thought about that. I'm going to try to beat my one competitor in town for prices while still making a livable wage. And I don't want to undercut him.
    I was thinking about how much to charge to say rebevel an edge on top of the sharpening fee. What do you think I should charge for say a 6 inch kitchen knife to rebevel an edge full of dents?
    Do you think edge pro stones count if the guy asked for a knife sharpened on a water stone? They are waterstones after all or will he want specifically bench stones...in any case.
    I have. 1x42 but I wasn't going to use it for sharpening. I find the work sharp does the job pretty quick. So, you think I should learn how to sharpen on the 1x42?
    If i shouldn't sharpen basic knives in my edge pro and I should sharpen them on a belt grinder, do you think the convex edge it puts on will be okay with most customers?

    Thanks for the help guys,

    Bo
     
  12. bgentry

    bgentry

    Aug 3, 2009
    I think most sharpeners will take a knife with chips and nicks and not charge anything extra. Unless the blade requires a lot of extra effort. It depends on how deep the chips are and thus how much more you have to grind. I think I recall seeing individual repair costs on some sharpening price sheets. Things like:

    Fix Broken Tip: $5
    Cut down bolster from excessive sharpening: $5
    Edge Reconditioning (for very worn or damaged edges): $5

    I'm making up those prices; I can't remember what I saw exactly, but those categories are definitely ones I've seen listed on various sharpening price sheets.

    I think there is a mystique to waterstones, particularly for someone that owns a Japanese kitchen knife and only knows that "you are supposed to sharpen these on waterstones". So I think it would be advisable only to offer that service if you are going to buy a good number of waterstones. ...and also learn how to sharpen common Japanese blades like the Yanagi-ba, the Deba, and Nakiri. All of those are going to require a somewhat different technique than you have probably used on other blades. I've never sharpened any of those for the record. :)

    I've been told that nearly every professional sharpener that does any kind of volume uses a 1x42 or a 2x72. I've never used either. If I wanted to crank out sharp blades, I'd definitely be trying one of those. So yes, in my opinion, that would be wise. But I don't speak from experience, so it's just my opinion. :)

    Convex shmom-vex. The small amount of convex won't be noticeable to most people and it really isn't a true convex anyway. It's more of a micro-convex. If you do your job correctly a belt sander produced edge will cut really nicely and your customers that are paying a small amount of money per blade should be extremely happy.

    Brian.
     
  13. Bo-dacious

    Bo-dacious

    408
    Aug 13, 2016
    @bgentry these are really good points. I just won't "offer" waterstone sharpening but will inform them that I do use water stones.

    What do you mean by "Cut down bolster from excessive sharpening"?

    I would only charge extra if it had really big chips out of the edge. If it just had minor chips I wouldn't charge extra. If I have to start the blade on a bench grinder or something then I'll charge extra.

    Another category would be thinning a knife, right?

    Thanks Brian,

    Bo
     
  14. bgentry

    bgentry

    Aug 3, 2009
    On many kitchen knives, there is a thick bar that is right below the blade. When you sharpen these knives a lot, the bolster sticks out and gets in the way of cutting. Sometimes you see bolsters that are almost funny, sticking WAY out from the knife. These need to be reduced in order to use the knife properly again. See this video for some good explanation and visuals.



    Brian.
     
  15. ahoward2k

    ahoward2k

    126
    Sep 20, 2017
    I use a 1x30 to rough in edges, i get some knives from a few beginner makers that have no edge at all. I go at about a 30-40 degree angle just to hog off excess material, then I go to the tsprof with 120 SiC stones to set the beveland go from there.
     
  16. Bo-dacious

    Bo-dacious

    408
    Aug 13, 2016
    Bgentry: Thank you Brian, that seems hugely important and I didn't know about it before this. That's great stuff.

    Ahoward2k: where did you order the tsprof from? Is there an English website?

    Thanks guys,

    Bo
     
  17. ahoward2k

    ahoward2k

    126
    Sep 20, 2017
    I ordered directly from them, just used Google and the English page came up. Now there are some distributors in the US, there's a thread here about the system and they pretty regularly update their stock and shipping times
     
  18. Bo-dacious

    Bo-dacious

    408
    Aug 13, 2016

Share This Page