Edge Pro Sharpening Tips, Mistakes, and Lessons Learned

fishface5

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Excellent post! I don't have the patience for guided systems but there is plenty of useful information here that applies to any sharpening method, thanks!
 

miso2

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M maximus83

I have used DMT XXC, which is rated as #100.
It removed materials very fast.
But I realized that it made the edge so rough.
I had to remove a lot of metal anyway with #150 after that.
Does Venev #80 have this problem?
Or do you not allow it to touch the edge?
 

krazichinaman

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miso2 miso2 ,
This is a wonderful thread! Like you I can't emphasize enough for new users to practice on old knives before jumping straight to their pride and joys.

I've "damaged...aka super wide bevels" on a few of mine because I was too impatient to learn on older knives and went full blown into reprofile with the 120....at least the knives in question cut like a laser!

I'm still learning and plan on following your write up!

Look forward to further content you add to this thread.
 
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miso2

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Thank you, krazichinaman krazichinaman .

I also jumped on and "ruined" a few good knives at the beginning.
Thinking back now, I probably took the "hype" of guided systems that they are very easy to use and to get a good result.
In fact, it is easy to get bad results with them, unless you really learn benefits and risks of using these systems.
 

maximus83

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Thank you, krazichinaman krazichinaman .

I also jumped on and "ruined" a few good knives at the beginning.
Thinking back now, I probably took the "hype" of guided systems that they are very easy to use and to get a good result.
In fact, it is easy to get bad results with them, unless you really learn benefits and risks of using these systems.

Amen to this. It has as much learning curve as freehand, for me. The main advantage I've found to EP is that, once proficient, I could get a more consistent edge bevel than I could get when freehand sharpening. And maybe, get knives done a little faster.

@miso2, about the venev #80: I find that unlike some very coarse stones such as SiC stones I've used, I can actually get an edge with a pretty decent finish and I do hit the edge with it, I can actually deburr and get it sharp enough to slice receipt paper--with a large thick 1095 hunting blade. I wouldn't say anyone who has the #150 would strictly "need" the #80, you can definitely get done what you need to do. But I think for me, I have a fair number of knives I want to completely reprofile and for those I do on the EP vs freehand, I will use the #80 because it's just that much faster.
 

BTGuy

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Always enjoy your sharpening posts, miso. Nice work! I bookmarked your older sharpening thread when I first got my Edge Pro a few years back and it was very helpful.

I've found a Shapton Glass #120 stone works well for fast material removal and leaves a nice scratch pattern that doesn't require a lot of work on subsequent grits. Good choice if you're wanting something in between diamond and CBN. The ones made for the Edge Pro don't dish as quickly as the standard Edge Pro stones too. Plenty of times I've used only that stone for a nice working edge.
 

miso2

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Amen to this. It has as much learning curve as freehand, for me. The main advantage I've found to EP is that, once proficient, I could get a more consistent edge bevel than I could get when freehand sharpening. And maybe, get knives done a little faster.

@miso2, about the venev #80: I find that unlike some very coarse stones such as SiC stones I've used, I can actually get an edge with a pretty decent finish and I do hit the edge with it, I can actually deburr and get it sharp enough to slice receipt paper--with a large thick 1095 hunting blade. I wouldn't say anyone who has the #150 would strictly "need" the #80, you can definitely get done what you need to do. But I think for me, I have a fair number of knives I want to completely reprofile and for those I do on the EP vs freehand, I will use the #80 because it's just that much faster.

Intrigued!
I will get the stone and try.
Thanks!
 

Bluemantra

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Miso, I’ve been getting better, but one area I’m having a problem with now is the tip. How do you a very pointy tip? When the stone gets towards the top it wants to roll towards the tip and not remain flat. I’ve noticed if I try and keep the stone flat I get no contact at the very tip of the knife. So I go with the roll of the stone and stop about half way. Is this the correct technique for the tip?
 

miso2

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Yes.
For drop-point type blades, you can roll the stone a little bit along the curvature of the edge line.
For sodbuster or clip-point type blades, you may also need to adjust the direction of grinding slightly to make scratches perpendicular to the edge.

One thing you need to be careful is the pressure.
When you grind the tip, the pressure is going to be focused onto the small area.
So you need to reduce the pressure, otherwise you may over-grind the tip.

I rely on the pressure just given by the stone and handle weight when I use Edge Pro, and reduce the pressure by applying a slight upward force to the handle when the stone approaches the tip.

Hope this helps.
 

miso2

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I added a video showing how I remove metal from small areas and a few additional misc tips.
 

maximus83

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Intrigued!
I will get the stone and try.
Thanks!

Tonight I did a 20cv folder and actually for an experiment, created a finished edge with the 80-grit Venev, deburred it with light strokes, the whole 9. That thing was easily shaving arm hair, push cutting thru 8 inches of receipt paper, and push-cutting clean half-inch slices in Rizla green cigarette paper. Plus, it had a pretty nice-looking finish, nothing like an 80-grit SiC stone that leaves your edge looking like a file. :D

So yeah, I bet you'll like the 80.
 

miso2

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Few sharpening angle tips

Keeping the sharpening angle is extremely important.
As mentioned in the previous post, stones with different thicknesses result in different sharpening angles.
This then may result in an insufficiently refined edge, when a finer stone is thicker than a coarser stone and fails to grind the apex made by the coarser stone.
Since burr detection becomes more difficult as the stone becomes finer, the stone angle adjustment is important for fine edges, say above #600.

Angle_stone_thickness.jpg


Stone adjustment collars are available and help to compensate for this.
But I found that setting the stone angle using an angle cube works better and more consistently.


Benefit of setting the stone angle instead of relying on the pivot angle:
Edge Pro-type sharpeners have angle settings at the stone arm pivot.
You can rely on them if you can set the blade exactly the same for each stone and at each sharpening session.
Below is what I mean.

Angle_blade.jpg


Let's say that you have a pivot angle setting, with which the sharpening angle is 15 DPS, at a certain blade position on the stage.
When the edge portion of the blade protrudes a bit more than the original position, the sharpening angle becomes shallower.
If you use the stone angle instead of the pivot angle, you don't have to worry about this, as illustrated above.


Potential offset of sharpening angle due to changes in how the blade is set:
Even when you keep the stone angle the same, the actual sharpening angle depends on how the blade is held on the stage.
Let's say you sharpen a blade with the convex primary bevel.
Convex grind makes it easy to shift the angle of the midline of the blade, as the blade may wiggle on the stage.
If that changes, then the sharpening angle will change.

Angle_blade2.jpg


This could happen with a hollow ground blade, though you can secure it better than convex.
The stage magnet, as well as very light pressure to the blade, helps a lot to keep a blade steady.
But I still have issues with convex blades like Opinel
I ended up "clamping" it under the small knife attachment.
For these types of blade, a clamp system might be better.
 
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krazichinaman

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@miso,
Have you thought about putting all this into a PDF? It has SUCH great info and the drawings help illustrate it to a T.
 

maximus83

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Nice, thank you miso2 miso2 for all your work here to help the EP sharpening 'community.'

Suggestion to mods: Just brainstroming, obviously you guys own this, but I've often though it would be helpful if we create a "Guided sharpening systems" subforum within Maintenance. The goal being, have a single place for folks to post discussion about manual sharpening systems, from Sharpmaker, to Edge Pro, Wicked Edge, KME, TS Prof, Hapstone, whatever. And within that subforum, maybe have a goal to eventually create 1 authoritative 'how-to guide' sticky thread per each major system. With Miso's guide being the content for the Edge Pro. We could probably get other folks to volunteer to create a 'getting started' guide with pics or videos for each of the other major manual systems.

Of course, I get the counter-arguments against creating subforums. But there's a fair amount of traffic and discussion here about guided manual systems these days. It seems like it'd be nice to have all that discussion consolidated together, and then provide that targeted content around each major system, as guidance for new and existing users. Would make it so much easier to find and browse that guidance, and for people to compare/contrast the systems since all the content would be in one place.
 

krazichinaman

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Top of page 20
- You mentioned about the blade wiggling around. Maybe make a reference on using the magnet attachment or being hyper focused on using the same light pressure. Edge pro mentioned using a wedge before to help the "flat" part of the blade vs resting it on the initial grind.

You made several references about using "corner" of stone to help ricasso / heel / choil area.
- could you add a section with photos going more in depth?
 
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