Recommendation? edge retention

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HonzaK

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Hi, I would like to ask which knives can best hold the edge. By that, I mean which knives I can abuse and shave myself without sharpening. Just something that maybe will be really hard to sharpen but will stay sharp for a really long time. Also, corrosion resistance would be nice but not necessary.
 
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A chopper is not a razor....a razor is not a chopper. Which attribute do you want/need more? I wouldn't make a large chopping blade out of S90V or 10V, but a smaller edc, hunting/skinning knife...Absolutely!
 
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HonzaK said:
why?
the more tough it is the more it should hold the edge right?😅
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Not really. "Toughness" is usually used to indicate "not likely to break". Usually, softer, thicker blades are "tougher", as they are less brittle and less likely to break. Edge holding usually comes from harder steels with high resistance to wear. A knife that will hold shaving sharpness are usually thinner, harder blades. Higher hardness usually equates to "more brittle". Now, this is a generalization, but words like "tough" and "strong" can be deceiving in the knife world.
 
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HonzaK said:
why?
the more tough it is the more it should hold the edge right?😅
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Wear resistance comes mainly from carbides in the steel. The more carbides(particularly harder carbides from vanadium etc.) the more wear resistant it should be, but also more likely it will suffer from chips and cracks. Hardness plays a part but will also reduce toughness.

Toughness in knife steels is the resistance to chipping/cracking, particularly with edge impacts.

If you want a blade to be able to pry and chop for example, you will need a steel that has high toughness or at least moderate toughness and pretty robust geometry to be able to withstand that. As others here have asked, what do you define as "abuse" in your original question?
 
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If you're lookin' for a blade that holds its edge like a champ, you might wanna peep at knives made with VG-10 or S30V steel. Those bad boys are hard to dull but yeah, they can be a bit of a pain to sharpen. As for corrosion resistance, you'd be vibing with something like H1 steel.
 
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I am a big fan of S90V here for a stainless with great edge holding. My orange beach knife has S90V and it doesn’t have a single spot of corrosion on it. For ultimate edge holding, Maxamet stays sharp for a long time and the edge tends to microchip instead of roll. Careful with lateral stress on a Maxamet blade, you will snap it.
 
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I find 3V to be a great cutter with lasting edge retention. It's also very tough. There is always a trade off and although 3V from my experience does not have a problem with rust, because it is not stainless, it can never compare to other stainless steels when it comes to rust resistance.
 
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K.O.D. said:
S390 is pretty tough, has incredible wear resistance, but is not at all stainless. The knife I have in it is 67 HRC and unless you have the proper equipment (and time) you would probably want to have it professionally sharpened.

I'm pretty happy with CPM-M4 as far as the edge retention and toughness, but again it's not stainless.

A lot of people like the new CPM-Magnacut because it balances, toughness, and stainlessness. However, it's not going to stay as sharp as long as what has been mentioned thus far.

What are you using your knife for when you say "abuse?" What steel(s) are you currently using?
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I would like being able not to worry about damaging the knife/edge (I remember seeing some video about testing knife, I think it was gerber strongarm, he just tried to bend the tip (only destroyed wood), then sticked it only about a centimeter into some wood and he was able to hang from it (knife somehow stayed straight), then he broke few hollow concrete blocks with the tip and after all of that tip looked almost like new. Another video I remember was about making a knife, and after heat treating he tested it by "slicing" a brick 20 or 30 times (maybe 50 idk) with medium force and it had to perfectly shave after that or he would re-heat treat it). So I would want a knife with both of these traits (and of course good blade geometry). I am really into knifemaking/blacksmithing/woodworking/glass, leather... just creating things so I think after some time I would find a way to sharpen that knife (some water-cooled grinder maybe?, idk the proper name).
I found one video:

And steels? no idea. some knives I have are from my home (I found them somewhere, top line) few knives that I bought are not that great, but they're mostly for fun/sparring (bottom line).
https://imgur.com/a/HBdcCEt
and I got this knife (https://imgur.io/a/oD4FPLB) as a gift, the steel looks pretty tough and is a little springy.

btw my camera isnt focusing (manual focus doesnt work too) but I can use super macro which is bettet than nothing. This looks like a software problem can someone please help?
 
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Blues said:
I guess H HonzaK isn't all that interested in our opinions as he hasn't been back since 3 minutes after the thread was started on Tuesday...

...or...

...maybe he cut himself shaving.
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nooo😂 as I said I am sorry I forgot and yesterday I had literally no time/energy for this, today I am reading all messages
 
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Get a Spyderco in Maxamet; at Rc 69, it is going to do what you want.

You will have to take reasonable care of it: no prying, don't leave it wet or salty. If you cutting aggressively and you hit a staple or nail, you may chip the edge.

I carried my Maxamet Native one day inside my waistband of my athletic shorts, and played pickleball for 3+ hours. At the end of the day, my sweat had produced some spots on the blade and edge. Nothing too bad, but enough that it would have to be pictured and disclosed before trying to sell it. It wasn't SOAKED in sweat or anything, but the vapors of it were enough that it's no longer mint-looking.

That is the cost of a really high-performance super (tool) steel.

BUT, it is AMAZING in how well it holds an edge. You can cut down dozens of cardboard boxes with it and it just keeps going. In terms of edge retention, it is one of maybe 3 that can be mentioned together.

Going down to S90v will still net you great edge retention and you'll get a bit more toughness.

S30v will be easier to find (and afford!) and still has very good edge retention.
 
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So I read through everything and I realised that I kinda forgot how hardness and toughness works. So I rethought it and I will probably need several knives. 1. something like big kukri (I always wanted to try it for some reason I know I'll love it) that will have high toughness and as much edge-retention as possible, next some cardboard/paper cutter because I know I'll use it quite a lot. some smaller brittle insanely-higj edge retention knife would be great and the one that stays sharp because of micro serrations would be also great.

The rest I'll have to study a little to choose well, so I'll let you know in a few days.
My family has almost all knives absolute shit (like yes in kitchen it works but eeh) so I want to have a set of few knives for everything you can think of (probably less than 10 high quality ones, yes, low quality knives are good in some cases but you dont have to have 50 of them)

PS: I got an idea if there is some knifesmith between us: steels with really high edge retention are brittle, and steels with really high toughness will dull quickly, so what about combining them?
by that I mean putting a really thin (around 0.2 to 0.5mm, if you will be really precise you can go lower) slice of some razor steel in the middle of really tough knife and seal it with some epoxy.
The idea is that even if the razor steel would crack it would be still holding with epoxy, and the razor sharp steel has to be only the tip of the tip of the edge (the less it'll be the more you prevent edge-chipping)
 
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Smaug said:
Get a Spyderco in Maxamet; at Rc 69, it is going to do what you want.

You will have to take reasonable care of it: no prying, don't leave it wet or salty. If you cutting aggressively and you hit a staple or nail, you may chip the edge.

I carried my Maxamet Native one day inside my waistband of my athletic shorts, and played pickleball for 3+ hours. At the end of the day, my sweat had produced some spots on the blade and edge. Nothing too bad, but enough that it would have to be pictured and disclosed before trying to sell it. It wasn't SOAKED in sweat or anything, but the vapors of it were enough that it's no longer mint-looking.

That is the cost of a really high-performance super (tool) steel.

BUT, it is AMAZING in how well it holds an edge. You can cut down dozens of cardboard boxes with it and it just keeps going. In terms of edge retention, it is one of maybe 3 that can be mentioned together.

Going down to S90v will still net you great edge retention and you'll get a bit more toughness.

S30v will be easier to find (and afford!) and still has very good edge retention.
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my dad has quite a lot of "big batteries", mostly autobatteries, so I could probably etche it myself in something to protect it, or I can just have some piece of fabric fed up with oil (r/engrish😂) to take care of that knife
 
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HonzaK said:
I would like being able not to worry about damaging the knife/edge (I remember seeing some video about testing knife, I think it was gerber strongarm, he just tried to bend the tip (only destroyed wood), then sticked it only about a centimeter into some wood and he was able to hang from it (knife somehow stayed straight), then he broke few hollow concrete blocks with the tip and after all of that tip looked almost like new.
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Yes, I find Joe X entertaining from time to time (with liberal use of fast-forward). That episode inspired me to get a Strongarm last year. It's a good knife with a good sheath, but I had not used it much until about a month ago when I discovered that it made a dandy neck knife. Since then, I have used the Strongarm for almost all the knife-related chores around the farm.

My Strongarm was pretty sharp out of the box, with a BESS score of 234 grams averaged over five measurements along the blade, but that is not sharp enough to shave with. I measured it again a couple days ago. It was somewhat duller near the tip (BESS around 250, 3 measurements near the tip), which is not surprising because I have been using it for things you are not supposed to use a knife for, such as digging and prying and drilling, as well as a little stabbing now and then, although I have not stabbed any cars or bricks. The average sharpness over the rest of the blade was slightly better than it was out of the box. That would just be random variation, it does not really get sharper with use as some knives are advertised to do on Facebook. I expect that in another month, it will need sharpening.

If I were to use that knife for cutting down cardboard boxes and cutting up old carpet all day, it might need sharpening every day. For that kind of use, a steel such as S90V or Maxamet or various other that have been mentioned would stay sharp much longer--I would guess 10 times longer for S90V, even longer for some of the others. But if you hit a staple in one of those cardboard boxes, the blade might chip. After a few chips, you would want to sharpen, and that might take some work.
 
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HonzaK said:
I would like being able not to worry about damaging the knife/edge (I remember seeing some video about testing knife, I think it was gerber strongarm, he just tried to bend the tip (only destroyed wood), then sticked it only about a centimeter into some wood and he was able to hang from it (knife somehow stayed straight), then he broke few hollow concrete blocks with the tip and after all of that tip looked almost like new. Another video I remember was about making a knife, and after heat treating he tested it by "slicing" a brick 20 or 30 times (maybe 50 idk) with medium force and it had to perfectly shave after that
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If you are seeing this on the internet I'll suggest that the creator may not be 100% truthful in the results. Breaking hollow concrete blocks with the tip and the tip looked almost like new- yes it might in videos but it will not be very sharp. Slicing a brick and then shaving with it- I'll call BS on that no matter what steel presently known to man is being used. So you may have to reset your expectations. There are some amazing steels available on the market but slicing a brick is falling in the impossible category. Some manufacturers such as Spyderco and to some extent Benchmade will use fairly esoteric steels in some of their models, other manufacturers use fairly mundane steels for the mass market. Custom makers will use a wide variety of steels but remember that the blade geometry and the heat treat are also very important so it may be difficult to find a maker who excels in all 3 areas.
 
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HonzaK said:
my dad has quite a lot of "big batteries", mostly autobatteries, so I could probably etche it myself in something to protect it, or I can just have some piece of fabric fed up with oil (r/engrish😂) to take care of that knife
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...or just accept that the blade is not going to look pristine forever. Just like the old 1095 carbon steel knives that our grandparents carried. Take reasonable care of it and if it shows some wear? GREAT! It's a badge of honor.

The problem with oil is that you have to use some type of food-safe oil, or else you can't use it to slice up an apple on the spur of the moment.
 
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Ever notice the blade in your safety razor is too sharp the first time you it. Then it takes an edge that's perfect that lasts. And one day it goes dull?

A knife is pretty much the same. Getting OCD about the thing staying scary sharp. Never recognizing what a good working edge is. And getting depressed when it finally goes dull. "Muh knife won't keep an edge", "It's the dang steel"

Different steels keep a different degree of working edge. Some will make you happy. Some won't. With the secret being, not being so hard to please.
 
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