Edges and Steels

[Larrin]

Carpenter sells F2, which is a high carbon, tungsten steel, made to retain a sharp edge.


-Cliff

They told me they'd have to sell me the whole melt. I can't afford that. Did they tell you anything different when you contacted them?

 

[Cliff Stamp]

I am still discussing issues of steels and performance at this stage.

-Cliff

 

[Larrin]

I am still discussing issues of steels and performance at this stage.

-Cliff

Anything interesting?

 

[Cliff Stamp]

Yeah, but that is the downside to private conversations. That is why I always prefer public conversations in general. I will also be visiting other P/M facilities shortly. If they have any prepared steel info documents I'll try to snag another copy.

-Cliff

 

[Satrang]

What PM facilities will you be visiting and where are they located?

 

[db]

Very interesting.

 

[Satrang]

I thought it was a very direct and simple question.

 

[Cliff Stamp]

Had it been asked by a reasonable person it would have been answered. I already have several times in email. As I noted in the above, since Larrin tends to share information with me I'll ask for copies of any documentation I recieve, which tends to be focused on high alloy tool steels. Though as of late my personal interest has moved away from high carbide steels for knives and I am more interested in very high hardness, very low carbide alloys. But I plan to explore both through the research group.

-Cliff

 

[Satrang]

Cliff, you said in your post that you were going to visit PM facilities in the near future. I just asked a simple question as to when and where. No need to throw a shot in. Answer the direct simple question and move on.

Also, you have never emailed me. Are you confusing me with someone else?

 

[db]

I am easily confused.

Yeah, but that is the downside to private conversations. That is why I always prefer public conversations in general.

Had it been asked by a reasonable person it would have been answered. I already have several times in email.

I also thought he just responds to the post and not to who the poster is. Guess I was wrong about that too. I wonder if we will ever know what PM place he is visiting shortly.

 

[hardheart]

He'll probably say so after the fact. Considering the actions of some on the forums, phone calls or emails to the facility to somehow 'warn' of Cliff wouldn't be out of the question. I doubt he'd like to show up and have an employee greet him with "Such and such told me about you, tsk tsk." BF can cause some weirdness. The most extreme I read of was some troll received a visit in person by several members, a couple of them armed. Quite a disgusting display, imo. But knives are serious business.

 

[thombrogan]

Hardheart,

No one at BFC has it in for Cliff. No one jumps into threads to disagree with him for the sake of being contrarian. No one, not even famous knife makers and knife designers, have made thinly veiled threats to cause grievous harm to him ever. As you know, every question everyone asks Cliff demands an immediate response from Cliff and it's rude for him blow off anyone as no one's trolling with stampbait.

And today isn't Opposites Day.

 

[db]

HH maybe I am wrong but wasn't that a USN instance your refering too?

 

[hardheart]

I know I read about it here (don't post or lurk USN at all), which forum the guy was trolling specifically is something I can't say for certainty. I'll have to search to see if I can find the old thread.

Thom-so that's why I'm wearing my boxers on the outside of my pants.

again.

 

[Satrang]

I ride Cliff pretty hard about not going out and talking face to face with the knife community. This avoidance of human contact is just strange based on how passionate and critical he is about knives and the industry. To me it's like a racing fanatic refusing to see the Indy 500 live. I'm not alone in thinking this is odd but in the end, his loss. Now, he makes a simple statement about visiting PM facilities and quite frankly, I'm curious as to who in the PM tool steel industry is opening their doors to let Cliff in. Crucible?, Bohler? Dynamet? just name who. If he can get an audience, maybe the rest of us can too. The rest of us can give him things to look for and ask. Especially those of us who have experience with steels.
When a person starts a thread about testing some knives, Cliff is usually the first one in there telling them what to do, how to do it, and what they may be doing wrong or right. He's going into PM facilities and we have to wait for the results to find out who and what's he's going in for? Give us a chance to offer our input on the situation. It's only fair.

 

[Satrang]

If anyone finds out at least who is being visited, please share the info.

 

[db]

HardHeart it really doesn’t matter what forum it happened to I do agree with you that it is a little extreme. I personally don’t think that Satrang is like that though. To me he seems like a very reasonable professional in the steel biz.

 

[Last Visible Canary]

Give us a chance to offer our input on the situation. It's only fair.

I read the forums daily, but I don't really like knife shows. They're akward. I feel like a window shopper 99% of the time.

I'm not sure I want to force anyone to share what's going on in their lives with me if they dont want to. Nor do I feel that it's my right to know. If cliff wants to go talk to the head operator at crucible about powder steel, its cliffs right to say or not to say whatever he wants about the experience. I own no stock in the cliff stamp company.

But if you ever start selling stock Cliff, I want a news pamphlet to be published weekly asap.

I am more interested in very high hardness, very low carbide alloys.

any quick examples?

 

[Satrang]

I see the point regarding where a person is and what they are doing is a little much to ask. So, taking a step back, I'll ask another simple question for Cliff.

If you are actually going to visit a PM facility, what part of the PM business are they in (PM is a generic term). What topics of discussion and what information do you plan on obtaining from them that the general public does not already have?

 

[HoB]

That is really an interesting question coming from you, Satrang. Weren't you the person who claimed superior knowledge over Cliff, because you actually had one-on-one discussions with steel makers and heattreaters? If you are of the opinion that all relevant information is already available to the general public, as you indicate in your last post, then your previous claim, or rather challenge, that Cliff doesn't know what he is talking about because his knowledge is only from the scientific literature and not from discussion with actual makers, is pretty baseless.

I don't know what you are trying to do here, but it seems to me as well that you are trying to set Cliff up for something so I am not really surprised that you don't get a response from him.