Effects of alloying elements

Justin Schmidt

Justin Schmidt

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Feb 18, 2016
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I'm sure all you expierence guys know this. But for us newbs I think this is really good basic info.

http://www.substech.com/dokuwiki/doku.php?id=effect_of_alloying_elements_on_steel_properties

I was reading Mr cashens post on euctoid and hypereuctoid steels and kinda had an AHA moment. The reason 1084 isoften recommended for new makers is that the Currie point (the temp that steel becomes non magnetic) is approx the same temp (1414°f) that steel with approx .83% carbon austentizes.
So question. 80crv2 has about the same carbon content as 1084. So can you use the Currie point for an approx austentizing temp for 80crv2 or does the added vanadium and chromium effect that?
If I'm way please correct me
 
Chromium raises the needed austenitizing temp, but 80crv2 has so little it doesn’t make much difference. Nickel lowers needed temp. The verhoeven PDF lists the effects of the various alloying elements used in knife steel.
 
With the addition of the Chromium like Manganese it increases hardness penetration, but little help on stain resistance. The addition of the Vanadium helps the steel withstand the high heat during heat treating to help control grain growth. So you should be fine.
 
"So can you use the Currie point for an approx austentizing temp for 80crv2 or does the added vanadium and chromium effect that?
If I'm way please correct me"


So, can you use the Currie point for an approximate austenitizing temperature for 80crv2, or does the added Vanadium and Chromium affect that?
If I'm way off please correct me.

You weren't that far off. :D
 
I'm going to break up my post into some bite sized pieces of information and that way you can ask questions after each piece:

Steel can become non-magnetic in two major ways that we are concerned with here: 1) The Curie point and 2) transformation to austenite.
Martensite and ferrite are magnetic at room temperature but when the temperature exceeds the Curie point it is no longer magnetic because of the physics of atomic movement and other things a Physicist could explain better than me. Austenite is not magnetic (or more accurately paramagnetic) meaning it will also not stick to a magnet, even at room temperature. If you have any austenitic stainless silverware or appliances you can check this for yourself. We are not normally worried about the Curie temperature with knife steels because the austenite transformation temperature for most/all of them is significantly lower than the Curie temperature, approximately 720°C vs 770°C.
 
Larrin said:
I'm going to break up my post into some bite sized pieces of information and that way you can ask questions after each piece:

Steel can become non-magnetic in two major ways that we are concerned with here: 1) The Curie point and 2) transformation to austenite.
Martensite and ferrite are magnetic at room temperature but when the temperature exceeds the Curie point it is no longer magnetic because of the physics of atomic movement and other things a Physicist could explain better than me. Austenite is not magnetic (or more accurately paramagnetic) meaning it will also not stick to a magnet, even at room temperature. If you have any austenitic stainless silverware or appliances you can check this for yourself. We are not normally worried about the Curie temperature with knife steels because the austenite transformation temperature for most/all of them is significantly lower than the Curie temperature, approximately 720°C vs 770°C.
Click to expand...
So non magnetic is a pretty accurate way of checking if the steel has reached its austentite temp?
 
valknut said:
So non magnetic is a pretty accurate way of checking if the steel has reached its austentite temp?
Click to expand...
Yes it is. However, transforming the steel to austenite does not guarantee that you have reached the "optimum" austenitizing temperature, because with hypereutectoid steels you can increase the temperature further and dissolve more carbides to get more carbon in solution. Too high a temperature and you may get grain growth and/or brittle plate martensite after quenching.
 
Larrin said:
Yes it is. However, transforming the steel to austenite does not guarantee that you have reached the "optimum" austenitizing temperature, because with hypereutectoid steels you can increase the temperature further and dissolve more carbides to get more carbon in solution. Too high a temperature and you may get grain growth and/or brittle plate martensite after quenching.
Click to expand...

Ok so it's just something I'm going to have to test on my own to figure out what works. Or just get a PID and thermocouple. I'm going to start building a venturi forge shortly. But for now I'll just gave a 2bf
 
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