elephant ivory

L

leroyk3

Joined
Feb 16, 2009
Messages
79
I have heard that there isnew ivory for sale Is this pre ban or have they released some new supplies? Thanks for any info Leroy
 
I don't have an answer for you. With as much ivory (assuming it's elephant you're talking about) that's illegally harvested in this world you couldn't pay me enough or provide enough documentation of legal harvesting to persuade me to use it.

As producers and consumers, we can influence some of the wrongs in this world by eliminating the demand.

Sorry for the rant; that's just my opinion. I'm a forester and conservation and social responsibility mean something to me.

If you like ivory then I hope you find a legal source.
 
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They will never open elephent ivory for import in the USA. Im not sure what you heard but Im sure you may have mis heard or been mis lead. But if you need some there is plenty of pre-band around.


Brett
 
Ivory is a great material, so long as you know what you have. I personally enjoy fossil ivories because it's abundantly obvious they are pre-ban. You run absolutely no risk of making woolly mammoths extinct because that happened thousands of years ago.

I also love the colors imbued into fossil walrus ivory. They never cease to fascinate me.

I've never worked with elephant ivory (not counting mammoth) and never will, simply because it is all but impossible to prove any given handle comes from a pre-ban piece. You may be absolutely on the right side of the law and still have your work confiscated simply because you didn't find some way to document that your ivory pieces were all made from pre-ban stock.

Anyway, no need to let the bans keep you away from ALL ivory. Just be sure you know how to discern fossil from contemporary and you'll be fine.
 
California has extreme laws making almost any animal product illegal to sell or display in a place where sales can happen. Technically, it is illegal to plan on selling an ivory item. Raids and confiscation have happened, but they can't just pick it up and walk off. They have to identify themselves and show badges and have federal authorization , write you a citation, document the item(s) confiscated, and place them in a secure evidence container. You should get a signed receipt. The items have to be reviewed by Federal agents, and will be returned if deemed acceptable under Federal law. That isn't the end of it if California wants to pursue it, but it usually ends the trouble if the items are returned. Regardless, all items seized require paperwork from those seizing it. If anyone picks up a knife from your table, says he is confiscating it, and walks away...you should call out loudly "Stop Thief - He just stole a knife from my table." have the security guards and local police called, even if the person is a state official.

New York has laws that are pretty well defined, and you should check on getting a permit to display ivory. Generally, any legal ivory is not a problem in NY.....but getting the permit will save any trouble at all.
 
Stacy is right. Get a receipt!

In CA, the trade (or even intent to sell) ivory is prohibited--however those statues have failed in court more than once, including a well known decision by the 9th Circuit COP. Read here: (https://bulk.resource.org/courts.gov/c/F2/702/702.F2d.760.82-4303.html).

Also, in CA an exemption was added for possession and sale of elephant ivory that was here before 1977. Here's part of the statement by CA Fish & Game on this:

"California Penal Code section 653o was enacted in 1970 and amended in 1976 to include elephants. This section prohibits the importation, possession with intent to sell, and sale of any parts of specified animals, including elephants. However, an uncodified portion of the statute states that Penal Code section 653o does not apply to the sale of elephant items imported prior to June 1, 1977. In addition, federal courts have held that Penal Code section 653o is preempted by federal law with respect to its prohibition on trade in elephant products to the extent trade in elephant products is authorized pursuant to federal regulations or permits. See Man Hing Ivory & Imports, Inc. v. Deukmejian, 702 F.2d 760 (9th Cir. 1983)."

(The whole page is available here: http://www.dfg.ca.gov/serp.html?q=ivory&cx=001779225245372747843:3y4rnp6j9ny&cof=FORID:10&ie=UTF-8

A fair question is, "What is the requirement of the seller/owner to prove provenance of the material?" While a lot of suppliers provide documentation (and it's a good idea to keep such), there is no requirement to produce proof the material is pre-77. That aspect is essentially unenforceable and without a legal requirement to produce some form of documentation, the burden of proof SHOULD land on the state to show a particular piece ivory was imported after '77 (about as impossible to do as proving a particular piece was imported prior to '77).

When I talked with F&G about this a few years ago, they assured me that because of the powerful exemptions and court ruling against it, they were generally not enforcing 653o on elephant ivory being sold incorporated into products or at auction.

HOWEVER:

ANY deputy sheriff, city police or state law enforcement officer could seek to cite you for violating 653o (misdemeanor) and confiscate your product, but I was told by the F&G people that you'll get it back once it's referred to the feds or CA F&G or to a DA that knows the 'lay of the land' on this.

So yes, it's a potential head ache.
Stick with Mammoth. No headaches, it's not controversial and it has undeniable "cool" factor!
 
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