Elmax vs 3V

I have a couple of CPM 3V and CPM Cruwear folders - they behave on par (for me) and I treat them on par. So I suggest to expand your search space to Cruwear as well. More knives available .... Cheers,

Roland.
 
Pete over at Cedric&Ada on YouTube just tested 3V at near its maximum capability as an EDC blade - custom heat treat at 62HRC with LN cryo, and ground thin to cut. It underperformed my expectations - only 400 cuts. D2 with a fat grind did better (when heat treated by Bob Dozier).

Elmax was designed as evolution of D2, trying to retain the toughness while making it more stainless. I believe it's one of the tougher of the stainless steels.

In my amateur opinion, unless you're really expecting your failure mode to be chipping (e.g., batoning through hardwood, or cutting through staples or wire), 3V is overkill for toughness. It's better suited to choppers and similar blades, I think.

The way I look at it is, if hardness vs toughness is a tradeoff, then it's possible for a blade to be "too tough" for your needs. That is, if a less-tough blade would be sufficient for you, then you're wasting that excess toughness - you don't need it. On the other hand, I don't think a blade can be too wear resistant - more is always good.

I'm ignoring corrosion resistance and ease of sharpening, but you get the idea.
 
tyyreaun said:
Pete over at Cedric&Ada on YouTube just tested 3V at near its maximum capability as an EDC blade - custom heat treat at 62HRC with LN cryo, and ground thin to cut. It underperformed my expectations - only 400 cuts. D2 with a fat grind did better (when heat treated by Bob Dozier).

Elmax was designed as evolution of D2, trying to retain the toughness while making it more stainless. I believe it's one of the tougher of the stainless steels.

In my amateur opinion, unless you're really expecting your failure mode to be chipping (e.g., batoning through hardwood, or cutting through staples or wire), 3V is overkill for toughness. It's better suited to choppers and similar blades, I think.

The way I look at it is, if hardness vs toughness is a tradeoff, then it's possible for a blade to be "too tough" for your needs. That is, if a less-tough blade would be sufficient for you, then you're wasting that excess toughness - you don't need it. On the other hand, I don't think a blade can be too wear resistant - more is always good.

I'm ignoring corrosion resistance and ease of sharpening, but you get the idea.
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You make some good points about toughness, but I think your argument applies mostly to the overbuilt knives in today's market. They're not likely to chip or break.

However, if you go with more aggressive geometry for optimal slicing/piercing performance, toughness comes into play more than people think. On blades like the Spyderco Military or Shirogorov 111, increased toughness helps protect somewhat delicate points from breaking and thin edges from chipping.

You might not need 3V-level toughness and its pedestrian edge wear, but Elmax -- or better yet, Vanax -- with its balance of edge wear and toughness -- is really good. Vanax, which is a kind of super Elmax, is so fine grained that it sharpens up like a carbon steel and is fully stainless, which helps prevent edge degradation that is due to corrosion.
 
Twindog said:
You make some good points about toughness, but I think your argument applies mostly to the overbuilt knives in today's market. They're not likely to chip or break.

However, if you go with more aggressive geometry for optimal slicing/piercing performance, toughness comes into play more than people think. On blades like the Spyderco Military or Shirogorov 111, increased toughness helps protect somewhat delicate points from breaking and thin edges from chipping.

You might not need 3V-level toughness and its pedestrian edge wear, but Elmax -- or better yet, Vanax -- with its balance of edge wear and toughness -- is really good. Vanax, which is a kind of super Elmax, is so fine grained that it sharpens up like a carbon steel and is fully stainless, which helps prevent edge degradation that is due to corrosion.
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Yep - you know that 3V blade that Pete tested? I have an order pending with the same maker for the same thing in Vanax :)
 
Zeunerite said:
The numbers on BladeHQ don't seem to be based on any real testings. The corrosion rating especially is just all over the place with 3V at 5/10 while actual stainless steels like the 400 series and aus-8 get a 4/10.
I strongly recommend looking up Cedric&Ada on youtube for edge retention and some corrosion tests. Then Knifesteelnerds for toughness.
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Fair enough. I'll check out your suggestions!
 
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