Elmax

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Micdanson88

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Apr 22, 2015
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So far Im not quite impressed with the elmax steel on my new ZT560. I sharpened it to a razor edge capable of shaving and easily slicing phone book paper. By far the finest edge I have ever gotten on a knife. I opened a few boxes, cut up a little cardboard, and whittled a stick and it no longer shaves or cuts paper real well. Did I miss something or did I get a dud? :confused:
 
Was the edge geometry changed? What were you using to sharpen?

Without that information it's difficult to guess at what might be going on.
 
From my understanding, ZT does not heat treat their Elmax to maximize edge retention.
 
I bet they'll move this to maintenance and tinkering. Some questions should probably be answered before your question is addressed. Are you getting good results sharpening other steel? What other steels do you have experience with? How high of a grit did you go to? Were you sure that you removed the burr? Was the cardboard pretty normal or was it dirty? Was the stick fairly soft or was it more of a hard wood? When you whittled the stick did you kind of turn the knife prying off pieces?

Sorry for asking those questions but they could help determine if there was something wrong with the steel. Also, every knife I've ever bought performed poorly until I got a couple of sharpenings out of the way. Once the steel that the factory didn't mess up with dull sharpening belts and over buffing is exposed, the knife performs better. Don't know if you knew that or not.
 
I've also had very good luck with elmax on my 0561. Made me a believer in the steel.
 
Micdanson88 said:
So far Im not quite impressed with the elmax steel on my new ZT560. I sharpened it to a razor edge capable of shaving and easily slicing phone book paper. By far the finest edge I have ever gotten on a knife. I opened a few boxes, cut up a little cardboard, and whittled a stick and it no longer shaves or cuts paper real well. Did I miss something or did I get a dud? :confused:
Click to expand...

Your experience is pretty much the same as the experience I had with Elmax as well as my first impression of s30v and s35vn. After a few sharpenings, and rotating through some knives that use less exotic steels I realized that my expectations were impossibly high, the so-called super steels do outperform traditional blade steels, but by a smaller margin than one may expect. M390 is the only steel I've tried that maintains a shaving sharp edge substantially longer than Sandvik 14c28n, that said all of the powdered metal stainless steels I have tried do maintain a usable level of sharpness for EDC cutting tasks noticeably longer than traditional blade steels, especially when cutting abrasive materials .
 
Try adding a micro bevel. For a user knife, I've always found a 30d bevel with a 40d micro bevel is a really durable combination for any steel. The trick is to make sure it's a MICRObevel. It needs to be really tiny. Then when it comes to resharpening, just touch up the microbevel. Nowadays I don't bother with a polished edge.
 
ZT does a fine job on ELMAX.

ELMAX does better with a medium finish, with a fine polished edge it will dull quickly in my experience. I like 800-2000 grit waterstones for ELMAX.
 
Need to run it high... 61-62
 
I use a gatco system. It has never failed to get a shaving sharp edge on anything I put in it. The final ceramic stone is about 1200 grit and I'm using 22° and 25° on the clamp ( so 44/50?) I cut clean cardboard, not more than 30 cuts and a couple hardwood sticks, just to see how well it sliced. I much prefer a Mora for cutting wood any day lol. I just found out that it needs a few sharpens to "break in" so I'll keep testing. Steels I've used previously have been AUS-8, ATS-34 (Terrible experience with this one) different sandviks and I'm in the process of making a bushcraft knife from O1.
 
Also It had crossed my mind that I hadn't gotten the burr and I made sure to get it off. Seems reaaaaly easy to get a burr on.
 
50 inclusive?

That's the problem.

Take it to 30-35 inclusive and you won't have such issues. You are literally fighting the extremely obtuse edge geometry. Personally, I never go over 20 per side with much of anything, it only inhibits cutting and decreases the edge retention of the blade.
 
2014-10-13_23-15-12_602%20%281%29.jpg


~25-30 degrees inclusive 62 HRC custom ELMAX. It still sliced up paper and kinda shaved arm hair ( if you think scraping it off counts ). Finished on a DMT 600 grit

Take the edge down it can handle it, like Jason said you're fighting the geometry now more than anything.
 
Jason B. said:
50 inclusive?

That's the problem.

Take it to 30-35 inclusive and you won't have such issues. You are literally fighting the extremely obtuse edge geometry. Personally, I never go over 20 per side with much of anything, it only inhibits cutting and decreases the edge retention of the blade.
Click to expand...

This. I don't go above 40º inclusive on any steel, let alone something like Elmax.
 
Micdanson88 said:
I use a gatco system. It has never failed to get a shaving sharp edge on anything I put in it. The final ceramic stone is about 1200 grit and I'm using 22° and 25° on the clamp ( so 44/50?) I cut clean cardboard, not more than 30 cuts and a couple hardwood sticks, just to see how well it sliced. I much prefer a Mora for cutting wood any day lol. I just found out that it needs a few sharpens to "break in" so I'll keep testing. Steels I've used previously have been AUS-8, ATS-34 (Terrible experience with this one) different sandviks and I'm in the process of making a bushcraft knife from O1.
Click to expand...

Elmax, IME, is a better steel than the ones you've listed as far as edge retention goes. It's tough with a good amount of carbide volume. The only thing I can think of is that the edge angle is too high, it has a burnt edge, or the wire edge/burr wasn't removed and snapped off leaving a nasty apex. The gatco system should be good to go sharpening the knife. After you're done sharpening at whatever angle you set, say 15 or 20 degrees per side, using the same stone you finished with, raise the angle by 10 degrees and very lightly run that stone over the edge a pass or two per side, edge leading, and that should remove the burr without dulling the knife. Find an old leather belt or old pair of heans, stretch it tight or lay it on a flat counter, and do about 10 edge trailing passes per side, be careful to match the edge angle or you can diminish the edge pretty quickly. That should remove the pieces of metal left over. If that doesn't work and you still have trouble with the knife holding the edge, you may try to call ZT and ask if they'll exchange the blade. Elmax is good stuff and shouldn't be giving you many problems. Good luck!
 
I have three ZT's in Elmax, and have none of these issues. I have the 0561, 0770 CF, and 0801.
 
I've had pretty good experience with edge retention on my ZT0566. I have the edge set at 40 degrees inclusive, polished up through the 2000 grit tapes on the Edge Pro and it cuts like a champ.
 
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