Embarassing confession .... and a stockman question

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mnblade

mnblade

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Guys, I'm 37 years old and I've finally come to a painful realization. Here goes:

I'm never going to be a cowboy or a rancher. I live in a city and work indoors. I might walk my dog a few times a day but I am never punch any doggies. As such, I'm never ever ever ever ever going to castrate anything. Ever. Not with a stockman pocketknife, not with ANYTHING. There's just no scenario in the world that will involve me cutting the genitals off an animal. It ain't going to happen. I also am never going "notch" the ears of livestock. I am never going to use the spey blade on my stockman to do the "vet work" that Steven Dick refers to in the stockman section of his fine book The Working Folding Knife (even in the book, where Dick is lauding the usefulness of the stockman pattern, he just touches on the spey blade in passing ..... somethink like Oh, and if you ever need to do surgery on an animal, you'll be ready. :rolleyes: ).

Now, I believe the VAST majority (99%?) of the guys who purchase and tote stockman pocketknives are a lot more like me than they are like the "stock men" for which the knife was designed. So why are stockman lovers still (for the most part) stuck with no option other than to carry a knife with a spey blade, a blade that's such an anachronism!?

Isn't there a better use for that third blade? I mean the main clip blade and the sheepsfoot are GREAT, get used all the time. But is there any stockman owner in the world who doesn't use his spey blade the least?

What's keeping this pattern from evolving? I just fear that those who produce slipjoints face a steep enough uphill climb in this day and age of lightweight, serrated, one-hand wonders, that stubbornly sticking to an outdated pattern is really counterproductive. Hell, I'd even jump at the chance to buy a two-blade "stockman" that only had a clip and a sheepsfoot blade.

Thoughts?
 
the way i see it is that u are trying hard to make common sense of salesmanship.the truth is knives and guns ( for the most part) since the middle 60s stopped being a useful tool and became a image. what ever a man or woman has in there head about them selves and there needs are fulfilled by a gun or knife that" although may never get used for there intended purpose" fulfills a mental image.most guns or knives are never wore out. abused or lost or mistreated but honest wear is scarce.
whywould a company spend money changing somthing that fits a metal image and what ever u replace it with won't get used much anyway.
i know im gonna get a lot of arguement on my opinion and i may be wrong but it is my observation.
i got 50 knives and i have in my pocket always 1 that has broken handles chipped blades and won't hold a edge worth a durn but it fits my needs. the other 49 just fit my mental image.companies sell and make images imho.
david
 
The spey blade is very usefull, I use it all the time. And yes I'm more like you than I am like a stockman. That little blade I wouldn't do without.
 
I have several trappers and don't trap. I have fish knives that I'll never put on a fish. Face it, man, we're hunter-gatherers (i.e., collectors). But if we see someone who needs castrating, we'll be ready.
 
Sorry, but in my case, the spey blade is the second-most-used, right after the sheepsfoot.

I don't punch cows either (can they punch back? :D), but the Stockman is still one of my favorite patterns due to it's utility: three blades that I can customize to different uses. To wit:

  • Sheepsfoot blade: I put a heavy, 40 degree bevel on mine, and use it for the hardest work: carving wood, cutting rope or cord or strapping or cardboard, etc. One of the best uses I've found is for those damnable plastic clam-pack packaging — the straight edge doesn't try to slip out of the cut like a curved edge does.

  • Spey: I sharpen this one down as thin as I can get, usually around 10 degrees on carbon/CV, or 15-20 on stainless if it'll let me. This is the one I use for fine slicing of soft materials like foodstuffs, fabrics, leather, etc.; I also use it to shave down calluses (I know, yuck, but it's true!)

  • Clip: This one gets a medium 20-30 degree edge, and is used mostly when I need a long cutting edge, such as food prep (e.g., halving an apple).
 
I kinda have to agree with you, mnblade. I find myself more drawn to whittlers or a "Cuttin Horse" stockman to do away with the spey, but that's just me.
 
The spey blade is useful for opening some packages where the sharp point of both the clip point or the sheepfoot blades might poke through easily.
It isalso useful for scraping.
I personally like it even though I'll probably never use it in any surgery.

If you don't like it you might reprifile it like Buzzbait. He reported here that he reground the spey blade of more than one stockman to a pen blade.
 
Warning: Essay length again.
I still like a four blade stockman myself. And Gryffin makes good sense in customizing certain blades to fit certain needs. I used to keep a finer edge on the smaller blade of my Vic SAK Swiss Champ for fine slicing. I referred to it as my scalpel and only used it for fine slicing.

The mental image and the nostalgia aspect, and traditionalism keep this and other patterns from evolving. I find comfort in that. There are many other patterns out there for those who don't care for the blade arrangements on a particular pattern. So there are already other solutions to a user's needs out there. To evolve the patterns much would eventually end by all knives being pretty much the same.

There are some stockman patterns out there that don't have the spey blade, but have punches or spears. Here is one example of a three bladed case.

http://www.mattoxknife.com/cgi-bin/...id=1144714910.13197&product=Misc_Case&pid=867

Being raised on a farm, raising steers for 4-H and other critters for food and finishng my high school years in ranch country, the traditional stockman pattern for me is a connection to my past, to who I once was and am still somewhat at heart. Nope, I never used the spey blade for that purpose, even then. My friend's Dad had these plier type clamps that he brought over when we needed to change a young bull's focus in life. He showed how they worked once by wrapping a piece of notebook paper around a piece of baling twine. He clamped down on the this sandwich and the string was cut cleanly inside the paper, but the paper was only dented. I've never forgotten that demo.

Back to the topic, somewhat. Like NewShooter pointed out. A lot of the guns and knives we have are more about what and who we would like to be, or think we are than about who we are on our daily basis. I've always loved lever actions for a couple of reasons, but one of them is how I connect them with a more down to earth, rural existence. A lever speaks old time, a man in the woods, working tools of a woodsman, cowboy, wilderness tramper. Same for single actions and old style revolvers. When I was heavy into guns I would build kits sometimes consisting of rifle, handgun, knife, and maybe a shotgun, that fit a particular lifestyle. The traditional patterns of knives pretty much let us do the same thing while being pretty practical as well. To me, a stockman isn't a stockman without a spey blade on it. That's just me, but it does mean something to me.

While I've known it in a back of my mind sort of way, only this past year has it hit me hard that short of winning the lottery, I don't really have much of a chance of ever getting back to a country homestead or getting out in the woods (or what passes for them around here). I do live in a small town with a cornfield across the road, but to me it is still crowded since I can't even go out and shoot an air rifle or a bow in my back yard. (Highway 90 runs along that.) I've too much trouble with my back to toss on a rucksack and go off into the wilderness, even if I could find any that was accessable nearby. (There is one at Bandera, about 30 - 40 miles away.) The few wilderness areas have plenty of rules about gathering wood, making fires, etc. They are more for the nylon, fuel stove, fancy backpacking gear crowd than an old camper like me. Living in central Texas, if you ain't got the bucks to pay for a lease, you ain't gonna think about a buck or a doe, or even small game. I was raised hunting on the ground, or on a few boards in a tree overlooking a space you'd scouted out several times before season. Paying big dollars, packing in loads of expensive gear, and shooting deer over a feeder from a box on stilts seems foregin to me. Part of hunting for me was the idea of gathering food the old fashioned way and being a part of the spirit of the wild. However, the Buy-a-trophy style of hunting is the norm in many places these days and growing more in many parts of the country. So the simple, painful truth is I'm pretty much stuck and will never again get to do the things I would love to do. If given a choice I would be living on a nice little homestead out in the sticks. I don't have the financial means to do so. I don't have the physical capability to sustain it anymore. Any dreams of living on some real country acreage, not some developer's rancheria hype complete with heavy restrictions, any dreams of roughing it again are pretty much that, just empty dreams. Really depressing I tell ya. By acquiring traditional patterns of knives, by traditional makers, I still have some connection with who I used to be and who I thought I was inside over the years. The traditional patterns provide some grounding for me in a world where I don't really belong and help me touch a part of a world that is fast becoming a fading memory or quaint anectdote <sp>. I guess you could say they are a bit of an anchor and port in the storm.

Sad part is, I only turned 49 last month. If the cholesteral or the diabetes doesn't get me, I could still be around for many more years to come. My world will have long faded. That isn't to say I'm not technilogically savy, I am. I've done computers since about 84, even took classes back in the late 80s and used to program a bit. I follow the concepts of many techno gadgets. Heck, I even get into comparing quantum physics (laymen level) and mysticism. But at heart, I'm a simple country boy as I was raised. It is what I would prefer to be the most. But the world turns, years pass, and this world shrinks each day. Where once everyone carried a knife or two, now too many people think carrying a knife is odd behaviour. I need traditional patterns for the connection, they are a little part that is left I can touch and remember.

I have a Glock 22 .40S&W. I appreciate that it is a durable, reliable service weapon. This is what it is for. I can't fault it for being quite the pragmatic tool. Yet, I can't love it like I would an old, metal and wood, finely machined, beautifully blued S&W revolver, SAA, or Colt 1911A1 (Series 70 or earlier), especially, the National Match. The Glock is a tool. The old stuff a statement.

So, no, it isn't a dumb question and you can get a stockman without a spey blade. But, for evolving the pattern. Please don't. There are already too many modern "tool" blades and "cool" blades out there. Let's leave the traditional patterns just that. Traditional.

If anyone has hung in this far on this windy rant, thanks. But, check, you too may need help. ;)

edited for typos and I probably still missed s few.
 
I use the spey probably most of all, and never really stopped to wonder why, until now. I live in Southern California where there's probably more negative pressure on EDCing than most places in the U.S. (I'm completely speculating about that) and I think I've gotten in the habit of defaulting to the spey blade is because it looks the most innocuous. In other words, I get less "Why do you carry a knife?" when I use it in public. If I do get that (and sometimes I still do) I can point out that my "knife" is probably less deadly than the questioner's car key.

This certainly had nothing to do with the evolution of the spey blade, but funny how it serves such a useful unintended purpose in an environment where carrying a knife uncommon and not generally well regarded.

Edited: After Amos' expansive and poetic post, mine has all the poignancy of an ill timed fart.
 
Amos, you need to write your stories for Knife World magazine. It's the only publication dedicated to the old knives.
I've written for them, and it's a great experience. If you have a good story, (and you do),there is a whole community of traditional knife lovers who would dearly appreciate your point of view, some who haven't found this forum, and some who can't or won't turn on a computer!
He**, you've already written a great essay right here!
charlie.campagna@telus.net
 
Thanks, Charlie. I usually worry when I go off on these rants if I'm not just rattling the trees like a lost wind. I can't even blame it on old age yet. Maybe just on feeling old. ;)

I'll have to check out Knife World. All the knife mags I see on the newstands are either about customs or tacticals, or custom tacticals. I'd like to read a magazine that focuses on traditional knives.
 
Thanks, Lobo. Yep, Waynorth is quick on it. I've already signed up for my 3 free issues. Now the hard part of waiting.
 
Thought I'd chime in on this one since I raise cattle and have used a pocket knife for castoration.

First off, I've never used anything to castrate with except the spey blade of a trapper. It works as well as anything when castating the conventional way.

The last twelve years or so I don't use anything that even resemble a pocket knife. It's a gizmo that I bought from my vet that resembles a thick replacable razor blade attached to for lack of a better descriptoin (plier-like) handles. It cuts through the scrotum very cleanly with just a drop or two of blood. But once it comes time to pull the testacles out and break the cord they haven't come up with any tool to do this as of yet.

Now be honest....check yourself. Are your legs clamped together without you realizing it?:)

If I could get a rapist in the sqeeze-chute I bet I have a rehabilitation program that would prove pretty reliable!!!:eek:
 
Thanks, guys. Great replies one and all. I'm still not sold on the usefullness of a spey blade for ME, but different strokes for different folks.

Whenever we get to talking about the old-time patterns, a certain melancholy creeps in (for instance, see Amos Iron Wolf's excellent post). I'm as guilty of that as anyone: longing for the past, for simpler times. One thing to remember, though. These really are quite good times for slipjoint lovers.

First, every cloud has a silver lining, and the ridiculous paranoia and sheeple tendencies of our society today mean that more and more folks will find themselves drawn to "non-threatening" pocketknives such as a stockman, trapper, two-blade jack, etc. (I know, I know .... :jerkit: to the sheeple. But it's true.).

Secondly, there really are a ton of good quality slippies in carbon and tool steel that anyone with an internet connection and credit card can buy: Queen's D2 knives, Case's yellow and amber bone knives in CV, Boker's Grand Canyon series, Moore Makers, Camillus' "Gran'pa" series, any number of German brands, and more that I can't think of. And if you prefer stainless, there's Buck's 300 series, a bunch of Camillus and Case offerings and any number of German brands, and more I can't think of.

Anyway, I'm off to walk the dog, Old Timer two-blade jack, not a stockman, in pocket. I just hope I don't need to castrate anything. ;)
 
MN, good points on both the current availability of traditionals in good steels and on the sheeple friendly aspects. Carrying a traditional in some of the beautiful handle materials can actually elicit a compliment. Not to mention, just like a smoking pipe, a traditional knife often reminds people of their father, grandfather, or a favorite uncle.

P.S. I'm on here in the early hours because my dog just took me out around 5 AM. Guess she wants to take advantage of my being home at this time as I work mids and this was my night off. She had me clip my Kershaw Ken Onion AO in my hip pocket. My dog isn't always as tradtional as I'd like her to be when it comes to what I carry.
 
Amos, I hear ya!

I'm 65 and I have that feeling of my world shrinking and getting smaller. Like you, I know I will never have a cabin in the sticks, and with a bum wheel under me I can't do the backpacking thing anymore. But what I can do is hang onto the past with a death grip. I do shoot lever action rifles, (Marlin 1894 and Marlin 39TDS) and old blued steel Smith And Wesson revolvers like 4 screw 6 inch model 10's. And to this day one of my favorite knives is the stockman. I don't know why I love the stockman so much, exept that it does give me three blades to chose from. While I keep the clip and sheepsfoot sharp, on my stockman the spey is dull. I use the spey as a scraping, poking spatula type of tool.

To me the stockman, like the other slippys, are something from the past that I can carry with me every day. If a cutting chore comes up I use it for that. I get alot of pleasure out of the old tools, and like one poster pointed out, they are very sheeple friendly. In fact I've gotten questions and compliments from some people who have seen my knife in public. At a target store a young man and his wife were trying to cut open a box with his car key. I gave assistance with the Hen and Rooster stockman I was carrying and they asked about it because niether of the 30 something couple has seen anything like it. They were facinated by the fact that the blade turned that shade of grey over alot of years, and the stag handles had turned that dark golden hue after 30 years or so. To them it was an interesting antique.

I think the younger folks in this stainless steel and plastic world don't realize that its okay for things to age gracefully. Not everything has to be the latest and greatest gizmo. That old grey carbon blade will cut a piece of string, an apple, open the box the UPS guy dropped off just as well as the tanto pointed, black handle Ninjadeathblade tacticle knife.

Amos, you're getting to an age where you are going to start cherishing the old stuff from you're younger day. When I got past 50, I ended up selling off the "new" stuff. I lost interest in the things I had used in my 30's and 40's. In some cases I was lucky, they were still in a box in the basement or attick. In some cases though I had to haunt the gun shows to find another one. You young guys here take note-Please do yourselves a favor and carefully put away the stuff you think you don't want because you found something newer and better. The newer stuff will lose its shine one day, and you'll want that old gun/knife/coat and kick your own butt for getting rid of it.

Don't let the memories fade Amos, cherish them. I know that I'm the last of a generation that remembers the old days, and what it was like. My Grandad took me bird hunting with him when I was little. The memories of the sharp fall days are still with me, even as I drive by where it happened and there are shopping malls and housing developments covering those fields today. It does get depressing at times but we just keep on going.
 
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