Emberlit FireAnt

[leghog]

so you have your mind closed even after someone with years of experience with them said there's no need to even break up wood...in case you missed what i said above...you're missing out on a great tool but that's cool

Perhaps he has years of experience with wood fire/just not the stove. Many do and yet still prefer white gas/gas, alcohol, and/or canister stoves and never burn wood on the trail.

you've also ruled out a heated shelter...pretty nice when it's cold outside...that all-titanium stove is only a pound by the way.

I can say I have ruled out a heated shelter as I don't need one.

 

[JV3]

Perhaps he has years of experience with wood fire/just not the stove. Many do and yet still prefer white gas/gas, alcohol, and/or canister stoves and never burn wood on the trail.

the point is he keeps insisting that there's a need to break up wood with an emberlit and i said that's not true...nothing to do with white gas/gas, alcohol, and/or canister stoves. i'm starting to notice you have an anti-wood fire agenda and you're sneaking it in a post here and there whenever you can

some people who have no first hand experience with an emberlit or similar stove might be turned off because of his statement which is not true...and they'll continue to make open fires as a result. an emberlit is actually a pretty good compromise for those who like to play with an open fire and for the leave-no-trace camp.

I can say I have ruled out a heated shelter as I don't need one.

i don't need one either that's why i said it's nice to have...some of those who winter camp will know what i mean.

 

[alewn]

the only time I use an open fire is when the ground is really hard frozen. I use a Dakota Pit, almost always, for a variety of reasons. It lets me put wood into the pit vertically, it contains the heat, making cooking handier, and it keeps the fire's light from showing at night. I see no reason to live anyplace where it stays really cold or there's much in the way of snow. I've lived rough enough to know that both are a huge, dangerous pita.

 

[leghog]

...some of those who winter camp will know what i mean.

And some of us who winter hike aren't packing anything like your shelter stove on their backs for something nice to have.

 

[JV3]

And some of us who winter hike aren't packing anything like your shelter stove on their backs for something nice to have.

but you don't overnight during the winter, just day hike, no? i remember reading somewhere you were supposed to overnight with your son but ended up taking just a day hike because of the snow/cold even though you were well equipped to do so, or so it appears...a shelter stove is definitely not worth it on a day hike regardless how cold it is

 

[upnorth]

maybe you're confusing it with a gassifier wood stove? the emberlit is different. most of the time i just pick up twigs and branches that's about 1" thick or less and use it as fuel as is. it's incredibly fuel efficient too...by the time someone built a big enough fire to put a liter of water on for boiling, chances are i've already got my liter of water boiled with a lot less wood than the other guy used to start his fire

these last two pics show all the fuel needed to boil a liter of water...and i used them as is - just keep feeding it in the emberlit.

JV3 can you please tell me who makes that container (with the lid), and where you bought it from. I have always wanted one of those and have been unable to find them out here. All I've ever found (without a net search) is the cup itself, military surplus. Sometimes I see useful equipment then forget about it. I'm trying to jump on this chance. Thank you.

 

[leghog]

....who makes that container (with the lid), and where you bought it from.

Just google "U.S. Army canteen cup with lid" and "GI type canteen cup with lid". You'll get many hits from reputable vendors.

 

[Camber]

That particular one is made by Heavy Cover out of titanium

 

[JV3]

JV3 can you please tell me who makes that container (with the lid), and where you bought it from. I have always wanted one of those and have been unable to find them out here. All I've ever found (without a net search) is the cup itself, military surplus. Sometimes I see useful equipment then forget about it. I'm trying to jump on this chance. Thank you.

that's the heavy cover inc. canteen mess kit in titanium: http://www.heavycoverinc.com/heavy-cover-us-gi-style-titanium-canteen-mess-kit-37oz-includes-tritan-plastic-and-titanium-canteen-cap. i remember you can just buy the cup and cover for $50'sh if you don't want to buy the canteen as well but for some reason it's no longer listed on the site. contact the owner and ask...maybe it's just out of stock?

the plastic nalgene oasis canteen fits in this cup as well and it's actually lighter than the titanium.

if you want a stainless steel usgi canteen cup ($13 from that big river site) then this stainless steel cover from heavy cover will work: http://www.heavycoverinc.com/us-gi-military-canteen-cup-boil-cover...i have both of these as well and it's crazy heavy - especially the cover, it's way overbuilt.

 

[alewn]

I use a sawyer mini for water purification and I don't bother to boil a mere one liter. i use a 2 qt arctic canteen cup. I light a fire only when I have something to cook and unless I'm hunting/trapping, I just eat gorp or jerky

. I find it very dangerous to count upon a fire or my warmth. Best have the sort of portable shelter/clothing needed to save yourself and not rely on a fire. You have to go get firewood, water, etc, so what protects you while you do that, hmm? A fire is an invitation to enemies, so it's to be avoided when possible. It's also a pita and a danger to your hair, your lungs and your gear. When there's much snow, or rain, or prairie, there's little fuel to be found in many areas. Deciduous trees dont have dead branches to break off so easily, as do most evergreens.

 

[JV3]

I use a sawyer mini for water purification and I don't bother to boil a mere one liter. i use a 2 qt arctic canteen cup. I light a fire only when I have something to cook and unless I'm hunting/trapping, I just eat gorp or jerky

. I find it very dangerous to count upon a fire or my warmth. Best have the sort of portable shelter/clothing needed to save yourself and not rely on a fire. You have to go get firewood, water, etc, so what protects you while you do that, hmm? A fire is an invitation to enemies, so it's to be avoided when possible. It's also a pita and a danger to your hair, your lungs and your gear. When there's much snow, or rain, or prairie, there's little fuel to be found in many areas. Deciduous trees dont have dead branches to break off so easily, as do most evergreens.

i use a sawyer mini as well in the non-freezing months and then i switch to chlorine tablets for the rest.

as for your 2nd paragraph, an emberlit is in lieu of bringing a canister/alcohol/white gas stove strictly for boiling water for dehydrated food or actual cooking...i don't know anyone (real world or here) that would bring any of those and leave behind shelter and clothing and use it as their main source of warmth.

if you're referring to my shelter stove then you failed to read the "nice to have"...or you misread it as "must have"? i'm not a primitive-style camper so i've never depended on a fire as my only/main source of warmth...are you done trying to derail this thread?

 

[Sharp_Canadian]

I can't see any reason to bother with such stoves. They just require you to do more work breaking up your wood.

That's cute, but I see it a lot easier than carrying a weeks worth of wet fuel. Plus there's no processing actually. Just stuff sticks in it. It's not much harder than bending over and using 1 hand.

 

[alewn]

i guess you're right, as long as there's debris wherever you go, but that has not been my experience. you must not snow camp much? But really, if you can carry wet fuel, you probably dont need to bother with the cooking at all. What for? I've gone for a week, many times, on just gorp and jerky. Sometimes I'll soak the jerky a bit, getting old and the teeth aint so great, and patience with chewing is less great. To me, cooking is reserved for times when I have killed something or harvested some plant source. I don't enjoy hanging over a fire, trying to keep my food from burning, nor the gathering of the wood, the carrying of stuff and fuel, etc. I begrudge every oz and cubic inch of stuff that I have to lug along, actually. The gorp and jerky become a smaller burden every day of the trip.

 

[trestle]

i guess you're right, as long as there's debris wherever you go, but that has not been my experience. you must not snow camp much? But really, if you can carry wet fuel, you probably dont need to bother with the cooking at all. What for? I've gone for a week, many times, on just gorp and jerky. Sometimes I'll soak the jerky a bit, getting old and the teeth aint so great, and patience with chewing is less great. To me, cooking is reserved for times when I have killed something or harvested some plant source. I don't enjoy hanging over a fire, trying to keep my food from burning, nor the gathering of the wood, the carrying of stuff and fuel, etc. I begrudge every oz and cubic inch of stuff that I have to lug along, actually. The gorp and jerky become a smaller burden every day of the trip.

Hey...no offense but, why even go hiking if it's so much trouble? Everything you're complaining about are many of the reasons some of us go hiking and camping in the first place. Choosing to eat nothing but gorp or jerky for a week...sounds like life aboard an 18th century ship. Most people would prefer to carry other types of food and have a plan for preparing the food as necessary, even if it means lugging along a few ounces of stove and fuel or in the case of this thread, a few ounces for an Emberlit. Not pounds, ounces.

I'll never understand why people get worked up about what other people do that doesn't affect them in the slightest. As long as I'm not asking anyone else to carry it, what difference should it make to anyone how much my pack weighs? None.

A fire is an invitation to enemies

I also have to ask: what enemies are we worried about drawing if we have a fire when camping? The park ranger? The local hippies? Maybe it's the cartel growing weed in the woods. Enemies? Please explain.

 

[leghog]

That's cute, but I see it a lot easier than carrying a weeks worth of wet fuel. Plus there's no processing actually. Just stuff sticks in it. It's not much harder than bending over and using 1 hand.

In many public lands, back country and otherwise, in the USA you can't have wood fires. I'll stick with carrying my fuel.

 

[sodak]

I'll never understand why people get worked up about what other people do that doesn't affect them in the slightest. As long as I'm not asking anyone else to carry it, what difference should it make to anyone how much my pack weighs? None.

Exactly. Ultra lighters on the trail always give me disapproving looks, and I always ignore them. Do what's right for you and don't worry about anyone else.

I also have to ask: what enemies are we worried about drawing if we have a fire when camping? The park ranger? The local hippies? Maybe it's the cartel growing weed in the woods. Enemies? Please explain.

Thanks, I was confused about that also.

 

[mewolf1]

 

[Codger_64]

Regulars and old timers here know that I am one of the early adopters of the Emberlit Ti. I still use it and find it quite handy in many circumstances. As to fuel, I've often found more usable fuel in campsites which are essentially stripped of larger wood. It uses the size twigs and sticks that others consider kindling. FYI a regular zip-lock baggie of twigs is enough to boil water because of the little stove's efficiency. By design, it is essentially a carburetor which properly mixes air for the cleanest combustion. After a typical burn, all that remains is a small handful of fine ash which is easily scattered. And it can be used with a variety of alternative fuels such as firestarter blocks and pucks. Though the wax content makes for a sootier burn. But it contains the fire and sparks well so that there is no scorching of rocks, no holes to dig and fill and no partially burned firewood left to douse, bury or scatter. I've not tried the Fireant model, but I know that Mikhale does not design and sell junk. Plus the Emberlit partners well with the BEMCO folding oven with slight modification.

 

[pinnah]

I see no reason to live anyplace where it stays really cold or there's much in the way of snow. I've lived rough enough to know that both are a huge, dangerous pita.

We are way, way, way out in to YMMV territory.

I'm trying to imagine a life without snow and without skiing and without cross-country skiing in particular and it is an unbearably sad thing.

as for your 2nd paragraph, an emberlit is in lieu of bringing a canister/alcohol/white gas stove strictly for boiling water for dehydrated food or actual cooking...i don't know anyone (real world or here) that would bring any of those and leave behind shelter and clothing and use it as their main source of warmth.

if you're referring to my shelter stove then you failed to read the "nice to have"...or you misread it as "must have"? i'm not a primitive-style camper so i've never depended on a fire as my only/main source of warmth...are you done trying to derail this thread?

I can describe 2 scenarios where I carry an Emberlit as a source of warmth.

The first is on remote long distance XC ski tours. The stupid danger of XC skiing (like mountain biking) is that you can easily get deep in the woods quickly provided you have a light pack. And as one learns to ski faster with a light pack, one aspires to attempting longer routes as day trips or long day trips. These trips are only possible is you eschew full over night gear like a pad, sleeping bag and tent. The are the XC equivalent to a alpine style climb and as Chouinard noted, "If you bring bivi gear, you will use" (because the weight will slow you down). These trips are built on Chouinard's credo that "speed is safety". But, obviously, things can and sometimes do go horribly wrong. If anything impedes progress, you're screwed. A few years ago, a party from Harvard University attempted a Pemigewasset traverse, foundered in deep, unconsolidated snow, became dehydrated (streams were covered), became benighted and almost succumbed to hypothermia in the long dark night.

Here in New England, such ski routes tend to be in lower hardwoods where small deadfall is plentiful, even in deep snow cover. My emergency provisions for surviving an unplanned night in the woods include insulated parka, insulated pants, 9'x9' tarp and the Emberlit. The tarp can be easily pitched diagonally off of a tree to provide a good wind break for 2 people. The Eberlit can be placed on some sticks on the snow and can be fed for a long time with minimal effort and without the problem of burning down through the snow to ground. It's a perfect, portable way to keep a "scout fire". Can't do this with white gas or liquid fuel. Had the party from Harvard been carrying an Emberlit and a small pot, they could have easily melted snow for water and avoided dehydration.

Second time I carry the Emberlit is for group trips above treeline. I recently took a Wilderness First Aid course and the instructor recounted a rescue in NH from this year where a hiker broke an ankle near tree line and their partners kept them warm using a small fire. Getting an injured hiker down from above treeline is always a good thing due to the increased risk of exposure but there is very little useable wood in the stunted "krumholtz" zone of fir and spruce. Again, the Emberlit would be an ideal way to sustain an emergency scout fire in that situation and it's now found a semi-permenant place in my emergency kit for this reason. Top tip, it packs well next to my SAM splint.

For more mundane overnight camping, I've found the large Emberlit makes a decent, if fiddly, windscreen for a sit-on-top type alcohol stove. I've moved to alcohol stoves like the Batchstovez 2.0 for my 3 season camping. I also use a GSI soloist for 1-2 person groups. Just the perfect size and a good match for the Batchstovez. The Emberlit assembled as a 5 panel manner with the floor acting as the 5th panel makes a perfect cone shaped windscreen for this type of kit. The indestructible Stanely pot also works like this.

Untitled by Pinnah, on Flickr

I strongly prefer to cook over alcohol. It's just so much easier. But, stuff happens. I was just on a trip where my partner's canister stove failed (I hate those things) leaving my white gas Svea as the only stove for a 4 day trip. I hadn't planned on being the sole stove so cut the white gas too thin to cover us for the full time. Having the Emberlit in my emergency kit allowed us to use the white gas when at treeline knowing that we would have wood fuel in abundance when we got down to lower elevations. I was able to bum some gas off of another hiker, but the point remains that a dual fuel sourced kit adds a great deal of flexibility to the kit.

 

[c.t.smith]

I picked up the regular size stainless model for an upcoming fly in sheep hunt. As it is small and light its a great backup to our white gas stove if damage loss of fuel or poor calculation on fuel consumption accrue. Cant imagine why anyone would have poor feelings on a handy item as these. Even if you just light a camp fire soething to prop you pot on is a nice addition. These give you a stable pot support. Minimal fuel is needed (still cant wrap my head around the folks that think more prep is needed for these) and can easily practice no trace camping. Not to mention very little smoke and easily quenched in high risk fire areas.