Emerson -- Hype or No. 1 Hard Use Knives?

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OK, I've seen the ads, read several reviews, visited Emerson's website, but have not had an opportunity to actually handle one of the much-vaunted Emerson line: Commander, CQC-6-7-8 etc. I have to say my hype meter has been registering rather close to the CS mark. So what makes these blades superior (or not) to the several other very similar knives from other manufacturers (or designers, whatever) that have 154 CM steel, titanium liners, G-10 scales and innovative designs, etc.? OK, let the flames commence.
 
Let the flames begin? Man, you are not nearly so innocent as your post sounds.

All I will say is that Ernie Emerson has gained quite a reputation in the knife world for a lot of things. I also hear he makes some nice knives too...
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Paranoid
 
I really love the design of my commander. Its fit and finish however are not equal to that of my benchmades and microtechs. In fact i am currently wondering what i am going to do with it... its lock (which was lose and shoddy to begin with) has deteriorated to the point that i can force it closed with my bare hands...

I love the design though, the wave is an awesome feature, and its grip is excellent.
 
Well, let me begin by stating, I am far
from any claim of expertise, or
real knife knowledge, but I have
played around a bit with the emerson,
have never really given it any significant
use, but I would rate it very similar
in quality to a benchmade product, which
I hold in fairly high regard.


The main
difference I can see between the two
is the Emerson I have uses slot type screws,
and the Benchmade uses Torx. I like the
Torx better, but just my humble opinion.
 
I'm just looking for a hands-on assessment and an honest evaluation. I am impressed with the Emerson line and am contemplating a purchase, but they are awfully pricey, especially with our Canadian peso at 65 cents US. But what can they do that my CS Voyagers can't, for instance?
 
<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Alberta Ed:
But what can they do that my CS Voyagers can't, for instance?</font>

Inspire multi page flame wars
biggrin.gif


Oh, and on the currency issue, the Australian dollar is currently trading at approx 50 cents US........

James

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My Home Page (writings)

The beast we are, lest the beast we become.
 
I have carried a satin finish, 2000, Commander since october of last year.
I have never had lock failure, I have never had a single problem with it.
The re-curve edge may be a pain to sharpen but it will cut like mad when sharp.
I have dropped it, by accident, from about 8 feet onto concrete, and it didnt even get a scratch.
Its gotten wet, and muddy, and stayed that way for an hour or two, over night even (once) and cleaned up just fine, no stains no rust no marks at all.
Its been stepped on by a horse, while closed, when it fell out of my pocket int he corral, and it stillw orked just as good as before.
its even gotten so full of pocket lint that some of my other knives get gummed up at that point, and it doesnt.

I personally, not having owned any cold steel folders, would rather carry an Emrson Knives Inc. knife, be it a Commander or a Police fixed blade than anything by cold steel, and i think that anythign from the Emerson production shop could out do or do the same as, any other production folder on earth.
Maybe I think to highly of my knife, but oh well. I agree with the adds, #1 hard use knife, if not in the world than definatly amongts the production knives I have run across.

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Morgan Atwood
(formerly known as nim-wit)
If you deny someone the right to defend themselves you are guilty of nothing less than attempted murder.
 
Let me preface this by saying that I shared, and to some extent still share, your concerns about the Emerson hype. I bought my first Emerson because I was curious about the Wave and because I got a really great deal on eBay.
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The Commander impressed me, despite myself. It feels good in my hand and provides a very secure grip. The drop-point recurve blade shape is probably my overall favorite; I think it is efficient for defense while remaining effective for various types of utility use. The quality steel blade came with a very nice edge. And the Wave works better than you can believe until you've tried it.

On the downside, the Commander's fit and finish feels somewhat crude when compared to my Benchmades, Spydercos, and my Microtech LCC. Also, it is a thick knife and feels bulky in the pocket, although not too heavy.

Notice that none of the negatives I list are exactly show-stoppers. The Commander is not intended for use as a gentlemen's folder. This is a big practical knife designed for heavy use. I think it fills that role admirably.

I was sufficiently impressed with my first Commander that I bought another one. The first has black scales and a black blade. I prefer my knives a bit less "intense", so I picked up a satin-bladed Commander with green scales.
smile.gif


My experience with the Commander encouraged me to me to take a look at the Emerson La Griffe, which I'd been wondering about for a while. One look and my wife claimed it as hers. Now we're both carrying La Griffe's.

Emerson's are not perfect, but they are good solid tools. Approach them as such and I don't think you will be disappointed.

--Bob Q
 
have a CQC7 - is in transit now from emerson because the lock messed up - got real sticky, almost took 2 hands to open the thing - dont get the chisel edge blade - its left handed for 1, and a bitch to sharpen 2 - other than that, i would rate it about equal to BM, but no better - workmanship is not as good as on my spyderco centofante - 1 of the best made knives i have-everything is well finished, lines up correctly, etc - its a good knife, and whatever was wrong w/mine was a fluke, i mean hard to open? rarely hear of that - IMHO there is better stuff around, for the $$, but they are OK - if i could only have 1 tactical knife (gasp) it wouldnt be emerson though.....
 
Before I joined the forums, the two knives I most wanted were the EKI Commander and the MT LCC. Haven't gotten either yet, but the Commander is off my list.

From all I read, the MT products have unflagging top quality. From what I read, even on the Emerson forum, one has to be able to check out the individual knife, usually from several/many samples to find one of acceptible quality, or else likely be stuck with a knife like Bryan's.

There must be something to the Emersons, because many devotees are like Satin. One example, but convinced the entire line is beyond compare. And, many devotees portray what I consider to be an inordinate level of regard for Ernest Emerson, tho none approach his own self-hype on the company website. Most people with egos like that are usually our president, or in a soft-walled complex.

Money is too sparse for me to take a chance on getting junk for it. I'd recommend going with known quality, if you've that much to spend, Ed.

(Just try to think of me as a bellows here, okay?
wink.gif



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Asi es la vida

Bugs
 
I own my fair share of production Emersons, and I can say that they have all been satisfactory in fit and performance. The only bad experience I had was with my Commander with green g10 handles, and that was easily fixed. The blade rubbed the liner slightly, but a twist of the pivot screw solved that.
As far as the comment about the lefty chisel blade, that is pretty much a moot point. Go to the Emerson forum and ask the Brit LEO what happend when he used his CQC6 on an attacker. The chisel grind will most certainly cut, but like many things, you either like it or you don't.
Sharpening them is not that difficult with some ceramic sticks. Maybe I am just lucky, but I don't see what all the complaints are about. I trust my '98 and '00 Commander and my SARK enough that they are my back up both on and off duty.
 
Hype. Thank you, but I'll stick with Benchmade for tactical folders. Better designs, better materials, better fit&finish, better locks, better reputation. All for similar prices. Want a folder to trust with your life? Try a 705, 710, or 730.

All Emerson's have is a 'gizmo factor', with gimmicks like the 'Wave'. Let me clue you in, here: anyone with an ounce of skill can open a folder the same way, using the thumbstud and the edge of their pocket. Things like the Wave are just to allow 'weekend warriors' who can't be bothered to actually learn these skills, but enjoy feeling like big-tough-knife-fighters. Not to mention that it's illegal, in many places.

Maybe this sounds harsh, but when it's my life on the line, I'd like to have a reliable knife that has proven itself on its own, rather than being supported by massive quantities of hype.

--JB

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e_utopia@hotmail.com
 
I'm not nearly as well versed as alot of the people that are bound to be posting on this topic, but I did own an Emerson Commander I'd be glad to tell you about.
Good points :loved the blade design, handle was extremely ergonomic, the Wave was just friggin' cool! I also liked the "common tool assembly" of it.
Now onto the bad points....
the edge on that wonderful blade design was some kinda chisel grind, which I really dislike. I've tried and tried, but cannot make myself like a chisel grind. (personal preference) The lock was incredibly weak, I didn't even give it the dreaded "spine whack" test on an anvil or anything, It consistently folded when I struck it with my palm. I was really not impressed with the fit and finish either. I was really impressed with the overall design, but couldn't deal with the problems it had, So, it went away within a couple of weeks. Yeah, I could have sent it back to Emerson and hoped that it came back right, but I wasn't in the mood for it. I pay that kind of money for a knife so that I can avoid that kind of frustration. For around $200.00 they I feel they should darn well get it right the first time. I felt that if I couldn't trust that knife out of the box I'd never trust it in daily use anyways. since then for the money I've moved onto Microtechs, Benchmades, and other brands which have not even remotely disappointed me. I feel my Commander was substandard to even a $30 Buck off the shelves of a local department store. I do admit, I once thought about giving one another try, but couldn't bring myself to. To paraphrase something I tend to recall Col. Jeff Cooper having said "It was an excellent concept erroneously concieved" I figure theres gonna be lotsa folks here that see things differently than me, but that's my perception. Good luck to ya'!
 
Benchmade may have better quality fit and finish if you don't actually USE the knife, but I've bought many BMs over the years and the one thing I've become convinced of is that they do NOT know how to temper ATS-34.
Nice knives, but not worth a damn if they won't take a good edge.

As to EKI knives? Scary sharp with very little effort, I have no quality complaints at all, excellent customer service, and they're TOUGH damned knives.

E-U, uh, gee, I didn't realize I was a "weekend warrior" until I read your post, thanks for the heads up!
rolleyes.gif


Fact is, I can do things with the waved blade you'll never be able to pull off reliably with the iffy technique you describe.
See this thread;
http://www.bladeforums.com/ubb/Forum16/HTML/001427.html

Runs With Scissors
Not throwing any stones at you, but I keep hearing people say they got a crappy Emerson knife, that for the HUGE money they spent it should have been right blah blah blah...
And then they all say, "But it wasn't worth the hassle to send it back so they could make it right."

There are two ways to look at that.
Either,
A. There is no such crappy knife, and someone's out to damage the rep of a GREAT knife maker just because they can.

or;
B. They really DID get a bad knife and since they don't care about the piddlin' 150 bucks or so, they can't be bothered to complain about it or send it back for repairs, and EKI has no way of knowing there is a QC problem.

Either way, I've come to be very suspicious when someone says it's too much hassle to send an expensive (150+ dollars) knife back for FREE work to make it right.

The wave is the FASTEST deployment method out there. Hype? My MT HALOIII is a great knife, but it collects dust in the safe now. It's just too slow.

Bottom line?
Quit listening to "Un-Documented Complainers"
Buy one.
You'll see.
(Then come back and tell us how much you love it. We won't laugh, I promise.)


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Tráceme no sin la razón, envoltura mi no sin honor
Usual Suspect
 
Ken, I'm so glad that you informed me that my Benchmades aren't tempered right. I never would have guessed, with the outstanding edge-holding, and all
rolleyes.gif


Glad I could clue you in. The fact that you describe using the thumbstuds for deployment as 'iffy' pretty much seals my point. I can do it 100% of the time. It's only iffy to those who can't be bothered to train how.

Plus, who cares? It's pretty pointless. If you're down to the point that the fraction of a second difference between opening a knife using the Wave (or similar) and flicking open an Axis knife, you already goofed so badly that you probably deserve what you get.

And the fact of the matter is that liner-locks are incredibly easy to disengage accidentally, with a small amount of torque. Short of carrying a fixed-blade, there is no better lock than the Axis. Fully ambidextrous, incredibly strong, and not prone to accidental release, like even the best liner-locks.

And, to further worsen matters, most Emerson's that I've seen had titanium liners. Titanium is by no means a good material for knife liners. Steel is, by far, superior. Especially on a liner-lock, where the flexibility of the titanium further degrades the lock reliability.

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Thank you, but I won't be buying an Emerson anytime soon. It was all I could do not to laugh out loud when I first looked one over. I keep checking them out whenever I get a chance. I haven't noticed any improvement, but I've gotten better at not snickering.... So, this is not exactly a 'well, I looked it over on their website, and I'm not impressed' sort of discussion.

--JB

P.S., funny that you mention the Halo. Where do you trigger yours, to get these slow results? The difference between mine and the fastest Wave draw is negligible, if it even exists.

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e_utopia@hotmail.com
 
Every company has its' good points and its' bad points. I had a Commander and traded it because it was too big for me at the time (I now carry a Strider custom folder, go figure). I think it was every bit as good as my Benchmades. I think that we need to look at each knife objectively. I know that some people will fight and fight to try and prove that their favorite knife is the end all be all. But I have yet to see many tests to prove this fact. I like the Axis lock but why is it better than the rolling lock, frame lock, bolster lock, arc lock,.... that other companies use?

Basicly what I am saying is that people need to look past the marketing aspect of a knife and look at the performance.

Also realize that not every Benchmade has hardening issues and not every Emerson has QC problems.

my $.02

PS I think we all are weekend warriors to some degree. After all how many knives can one person use at one time?
 
Without reading all of the posts (sorry, got to get to work), I think that the new hard use knifes are the Chinook and the Buck Strider. Both are incredibly, unbeliveable, crazy hard core tough. And then there is the Sebenza and the TOPs magnums. Those are hardcore knives. Are Emersons good, for the most part, yes. And for the guys with complaints, just send them back. Emerson does a great fix-up job. So if you want a tough tactical knife, get an Emerson. If you want tactical tough knife, buy one of the others.
that's all folks.

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"Never let your morals get in the way of doing what's right" -Hari Seldon, Foundation, -Aasimov
 
<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by e_utopia:
All Emerson's have is a 'gizmo factor', with gimmicks like the 'Wave'. Let me clue you in, here: anyone with an ounce of skill can open a folder the same way, using the thumbstud and the edge of their pocket. Things like the Wave are just to allow 'weekend warriors' who can't be bothered to actually learn these skills, but enjoy feeling like big-tough-knife-fighters. Not to mention that it's illegal, in many places.
--JB
</font>

Oh please, make the Bad Man stop. That's absurd.



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"You are no more armed because you are wearing a pistol than you are a musician because you own a guitar." ~Jeff Cooper
And the same goes for a knife...
And, I'm a Usual Suspect.
Some of my Knives
 
I've owned a few Emerson production knives. I've never had any of them fail on me as far as liner lock disengagement, except for on the Commander, I noticed that after just a few times of opening and closing the lock bar kept moving it's way clear across the blade's tang almost to the other side. Also, the black finish on the screws comes off very easily. While I like Emerson's designs, I would rather get a Benchmade.
 
E-Utopia,

I own BM's and Emersons and have used both in the field. I happen to love my M2 AFCK. I also happen to love my SOCFK. They are both great tools. To each their own I suppose.

As far as the "hype" is concerned I can tell you that I have used a CQC-7 on many dives. It actually replaced an ATS-34 AFCK which had a very fast rust rate for reasons unknown to me. The CQC-7 has been subjected to hours of salt water immersion, cutting, probing, even prying and I have not experienced any failure.

I was skeptical of the WAVE feature even after buying a Commander but I have to say that it really is a great opening device. I happen to like having a knife lock out on the draw. Sure, I can open my AFCK fast, but its not as efficient as the WAVE for me.

AS far as the WAVE feature being a "gizmo" for Weekend Warriors, I assume that you are referring to the SPECWAR community with whom the WAVE was tested and well received.

Why use the topic of perosnal preference in equipment as a platform for personal attacks on others who do not share your opinion?

[This message has been edited by Arkham_Drifter (edited 05-01-2001).]
 
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