Emerson Persian vs. BM Bedlam 860. Kevlar test

Edwood7

Edwood7

Joined
Mar 31, 2010
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emersonBM.jpg



I carry a knife as a backup weapon, so any advantage my knife can give me is welcomed. A lot of the bad guys down here use body armor, so having a blade that can defeat body armor is something I look for in a blade.

I have edge weapons training and know about all the good un protected targets on the body, y also have enough experience to now that all that training sometimes goes out the window when you find yourself in an extreme CQC situation.

I recently got to met and talk to Mr. Ernest Emerson at the “California Custom Knife show”, he really is a very well versed combat instructor, experienced fighter and a genius knife maker. I show him the Bedlam 860 I carry, and he proceeded to explain to me the advantages that the Persian has over the Bedlam as far as penetrating heavy clothing or body armor.” This knife is made for people plain and simple” he told me. The only other knife I can compeer the tip of the Persian with is the Hissatsu folder.

Neutralizing an active attacker with a deep stab is what I go for in an extreme CQC type situation, so penetration is a very big factor for me. There are many opinions stabbing vs. slashing as a fight stopper.

This test is to compare stabbing capability against Kevlar.

I used a level IIIA Kevlar vest for this test. This vest is not made to protect against piercing weapons, but some knives penetrated deeper than others on it depending on the shape of the blade; imagine trying to stab a moving target or one that is actively attacking you, it’s harder than it seems. There is also this thin plastic coating that some of the newer vest have that actually do make it a bit harder to penetrate.

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I did a full force stab to the center of the vest using a reverse grip wile I supported the bottom of it.



First some info on the knives.





Benchmade Bedlam 860
Blade length: 3.95”
Overall length: 9.71”
Blade material: 154CM Stainless Steel
Blade style; Modified Bowie with Ambidextrous Thumb-Studs
Locking mechanism: Axis lock
Pocket Clip: Tip-Up, Reversible





Emerson Persian
Blade length: 4.10”
Overall length: 9.60”
Blade material: 154 CM
Blade style: Persian style, v grind blade
Locking mechanism: Titanium liner lock
Pocket Clip: Tip-Up

First up, the BM Bedlam 860.


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The knife itself felt very solid when it went through the vest, but I did feel the knife as it stopped mid stab, leaving only half of the blade inside the target.
Next up, the Emerson Persian.


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A very solid grip and feeling as it went through the vest, I did not feel any resistance at all as it went in, it only stopped going through because of the thumb stud.


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The Persian is the clear winner in this test; you can see the back of the vest in this picture. The top one is the Persian and the bottom one the Bedlam.

t9.jpg


They both are very good blades, I think the Bedlam is more of a multiple use knife, the Persian all weapon.
 
This is an interesting field test. If you really want to make the examination scientific, you should consider setting the two knives up on a rig similar to the one used by Andrew Demko (I'm pretty sure it was Demko) to test the piercing power of the Americanized tanto versus the Japanese style tanto (I'm trying to find the video). They set the knives up on a vice that was attached to vertical rails, allowing the knife to fall straight down into soft and hard targets using only the speed produced by gravity. They then measured to amount of penetration.

Man, it makes me really happy to see my old Persian being put to good use! Use it in good health, Edwood. :D:thumbup:
 
That was both interesting and enjoyable to read. Thanks for sharing!
As always, stay safe out there Edwood :)
 
Thanks for posting it bro! Very interesting to see the difference between the two. The persian annihilated that vest dude, i had no idea it would perform that well.
 
As soon as I saw the photo of the two knives together I predicted the Persian would win. The finer point and lower overall blade cross-section tell the story. Kevlar is very hard to cut.
 
Great post as always Edwood. I would hate to be stabbed by either of those bad boys. You should check out the Spyderco Chinook 3 if you can find one. I think it might be right up your alley. Shares a similar blade shape with the Persian and Bedlam.
 
Excuse my curiosity/ignorance, but what makes the persian blade style better than others as a weapon? I know it's pointy and all, but it would seem to me that the trailing tip might make stabbing awkward.

Also, how did the linerlock on the Emerson feel and hold up with the stabbing. I know Emersons are built tough, but stabbing with a linerlock to me sounds just one step below spine-whacking if you're trying to get the lock to fail.

Stay safe out there.
 
Interesting review Ed.You should try out the Spyderco Masaad Ayoob next & post the results.
 
Don't know about you guys, but I would love to see a video of the testing process :D
 
I actually gave it a go, with my Sayoc Winkler tomahawk. Here is a video.


[youtube]h88cjbGqWqM[/youtube]
 
Ed, you would love a Spyderco Renegade. They don't make them anymore but they are great for piercing. The Spyderhole works great with gloves.
images
 
Muy bien! Thanks a lot for taking the time to do this and share it with us Ed!

On a similar design, check out the Jordanian Army's modern take on the their traditional jambiya dagger which was also I believe inspired the Bedlam's design.

cc-jordan-3.jpg


$%28KGrHqN,!lME2EiNnWRBBNjkFJhEkQ~~_35.JPG
 
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Planterz said:
Also, how did the linerlock on the Emerson feel and hold up with the stabbing. I know Emersons are built tough, but stabbing with a linerlock to me sounds just one step below spine-whacking if you're trying to get the lock to fail.
Click to expand...

Just for the sake of discussion, as a counter-point, somewhere in the mists of BF's history, Ex-SEAL and tactical trainer Chris Caracci (who has a sub-forum archived) discussed how he wasn't too keen on the Axis lock for a fighting folder. I can't remember all the details and is very hazy because it was many years back, but he presented how it could be disengaged accidentally during a fight.

Again, don't want open any can of worms here. Different strokes I suppose.

A well-made tool in the right hands will always get the job done.
 
untamed said:
Just for the sake of discussion, as a counter-point, somewhere in the mists of BF's history, Ex-SEAL and tactical trainer Chris Caracci (who has a sub-forum archived) discussed how he wasn't too keen on the Axis lock for a fighting folder. I can't remember all the details and is very hazy because it was many years back, but he presented how it could be disengaged accidentally during a fight.

Again, don't want open any can of worms here. Different strokes I suppose.

A well-made tool in the right hands will always get the job done.
Click to expand...

Had a axis disengage in some strange ways several times, I know many like it but its one of my least trusted lock types.
 
I am surprised the Bedlam only has a 3.95” blade. It looks bigger to me, and it also looks to be bigger than the Persian in the first pic, while apparently it isnt.

I'd probably be worried about either of the locks; but then again I am sitting safely behind my desk worrying about it, while you're out in the field.
 
EdWood7 said:
The only other knife I can compeer the tip of the Persian with is the Hissatsu folder.
Click to expand...

BTW, since the Hissatsu (the fixed blade which was the original design) with its pseudo-Persian/trailing point shape, I thought I'd post an interesting article from the designer; James Williams (I believe Ed trained with him). Williams is a tactical trainer with a traditional Japanese warrior background. It clearly explains the reason for the design taken from Japanese blades -

http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m0BTT/is_148_24/ai_64565404/
 
Planterz said:
Excuse my curiosity/ignorance, but what makes the persian blade style better than others as a weapon? I know it's pointy and all, but it would seem to me that the trailing tip might make stabbing awkward.
Click to expand...

I believe the idea is that in a reverse grip the trailing point works with the arced movement of the arm when making a stabbing motion. Check out videos/articles about the Spyderco Warrior for more on the topic.

Nice testing Edwood, so I guess it's Emerson from here on out?

-sh00ter
 
Edwood, you both scare and fascinate me.

Have you looked at the CRKT hissato (I likely massacred the spelling)? It has a more traditional tanto blade shape which is proven for piercing.
 
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