Emerson Persian vs. BM Bedlam 860. Kevlar test

[N4SIR]

Hissatsu

 

[N4SIR]

I dunno Ed.,... me thinks you need one

 

[Appletz]

I guess my concern with the Emerson Persian would be the tip breaking. It seems very fine. Then again the Combat Karambit tip is even thinner and people don't seem to have a problem, so maybe I'm wrong.

 

[awh]

how about the warren thomas m19. I just bought one of these in full titanium.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8X4OUvmHWFU

thanks for introducing me to the first emerson I might actually buy.

 

[OrdnanceBubbaUSMC]

It's that transition to the thick thumb ramp which gimps the Bedlam, it is absolutely unnecessary for the blade and handle design. The Emerson Persian is like a mini, sturdy version of the filet knife I had stuck in my head back when I was younger. Also had a very thin tip clip point make it hard to run and walk normally for months while just by being dropped from a few feet above my knee - no stab involved.

If I remember right Edwood trained with the Hissatsu and it's designer together.

Good job with the tests bro, if I was still there I'd test some new knives with you.

 

[Alphahunter]

Another knife that would suit you well. You can never have too many knives Ed
This is an Automatic the Microtech LUDT

 

[RandomAyes]

Hissatsu has issues... hard to open, too heavy, worthless "safety" doodad... but it sure is a stabby mofo.

Edit: I'm thinking about removing the AO springbar. Then that overbuilt spacer can be replaced with lightweight pillars. And while it's all disassembled that autolawks is going in the trashcan where it belongs.

 

[legion681]

Interesting test, thanks for sharing Ed.

I own a BM860 (and a 8600 too...), an Emerson Persian and an Hissatsu folder. Love them all, my favorite is the Persian even though I keep it as pristine as possible seen that they are out of production (however, Emerson has an active list for a possible production of Persians. If enough people will show interest, they might produce it again. So if you want a Persian, send them an email and get on the list...).

 

[crimsonfalcon07]

Very interesting. I'd definitely be curious to hear a bit more about what makes the Emerson so much better at penetration. I'm guessing tip profile is a big factor; it would be interesting to see how thick it would have to be. Nice to know some of those folders can penetrate body armor though.

 

[EricV]

Every time someone uses a persian for what they were designed for they seem to love it! Its a shame so many are safe queens when they seem to be such an effective tool for guys that could really use them.

 

[hardheart]

It's that transition to the thick thumb ramp which gimps the Bedlam

Blade stopped about halfway in, which is also around where the profile widens to where the spine is above the tip and continues getting wider. Definitely looks to be the stopper for this free-hanging target. If the vest had more mass/inertia, the blade may have created a wider cut as the spine riding against the target forced the edge to cut across. But the Persian still went in a lot easier.

 

[Edwood7]

May be they got the message, the Emerson Persian appears to be back in production and is listed as available on the Emerson page.

http://www.emersonknives.com/ekP_Tac.php

 

[chiral.grolim]

As soon as I saw the photo of the two knives together I predicted the Persian would win. The finer point and lower overall blade cross-section tell the story. Kevlar is very hard to cut.

:thumbup:
You nailed it. There was a thread on this a while back, "Uses of a Tanto", in which (towards the end) we discussed the physics behind why the slow taper works so well for penetration, namely that reduced cross-section (applying more force over a smaller surface area being penetrated/cut). From Edwood7's images, you can see that the blades both penetrated to the same blade-width (belly), but the BM achieves that width sooner than the Emerson translating to reduced penetration depth.
On a softer target, however, that BM would sure cut a wider swathe! (And i strongly favor the Bedlam's handle... but I'm not an operator like Edwood7).

I'd like to see the Persian compared to the Hissatsu.

Excuse my curiosity/ignorance, but what makes the persian blade style better than others as a weapon? I know it's pointy and all, but it would seem to me that the trailing tip might make stabbing awkward.

The same thread linked above discusses how the curved blade aids in penetration by allowing the manipulator to curve it around body-armor/obstacles/harder tissue (bone, ribs) during the stab (thus striking more vital targets within), it can be used to cut a wider swath in a single motion, and it also aids in extraction of the blade esp. when either/both target and attacker are moving (this is an especially important design feature in cavalry swords).

i would love to see how this fairs against kevlar

Theoretically (based entirely on math), it would fair very poorly in comparison.


Thank you, Edwood7, for this informative comparison of the two knives. Out of curiosity, which lock do you trust more for stabbing - liner or axis?

 

[untamed]

. . . but a good representation for the blade shape.

Just saw Marble's Jet Pilot Bowie. The "classic" military stacked leather look with the trailing edge + pseudo-upsweep of the point. All for a "beater" price too!

(Image from Heinnie.com)

 

[Edwood7]

:thumbup:
You nailed it. There was a thread on this a while back, "Uses of a Tanto", in which (towards the end) we discussed the physics behind why the slow taper works so well for penetration, namely that reduced cross-section (applying more force over a smaller surface area being penetrated/cut). From Edwood7's images, you can see that the blades both penetrated to the same blade-width (belly), but the BM achieves that width sooner than the Emerson translating to reduced penetration depth.
On a softer target, however, that BM would sure cut a wider swathe! (And i strongly favor the Bedlam's handle... but I'm not an operator like Edwood7).

I'd like to see the Persian compared to the Hissatsu.



The same thread linked above discusses how the curved blade aids in penetration by allowing the manipulator to curve it around body-armor/obstacles/harder tissue (bone, ribs) during the stab (thus striking more vital targets within), it can be used to cut a wider swath in a single motion, and it also aids in extraction of the blade esp. when either/both target and attacker are moving (this is an especially important design feature in cavalry swords).


Theoretically (based entirely on math), it would fair very poorly in comparison.


Thank you, Edwood7, for this informative comparison of the two knives. Out of curiosity, which lock do you trust more for stabbing - liner or axis?

I think the liner lock. It just feels more solid the axis.