emerson steel upgrade!!??

gine

gine

Joined
Sep 2, 2007
Messages
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I am a huge fan of emerson knives.I was woundering if anyone knows why emerson doesn't use the newest and best steels to offer.The 154cm is not even close to the best steel on the market for examle I'll name 5 better right now( vg-10,cpm s30v,zdp-189,sg2,cowry x.):jerkit::yawn::confused:
 
Good question. He likes 154-CM and I don't think He'll switch. You forgot to mention ole faithful---- Tool steel, like A-2.
Lycosa
 
:thumbup:
Lycosa said:
Good question. He likes 154-CM and I don't think He'll switch. You forgot to mention ole faithful---- Tool steel, like A-2.
Lycosa
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Ya sorry I ment to say stainless steels.
But i'm not sure cowry x is though?
But all the others are.:)
 
Yeah, I think it is just his personal preference. Even on the Emerson/Gerber collaboration, the knife is made of 154cm, while the gerber 06 auto is made of S30V. I wish it were the other way around. I do like my commander, but seeing them in S30V would be nice.
 
Can't say I have studied up on stainless steels lately, but each steel will have its good points, and not so good points. Got to stack the good against the not so good, and see if that is something you can live with for whatever knife you are thinking of buying.
 
Is there something wrong with 154-CM :confused: what in your opinion makes the "new" steels so much better ? what is it about s30v, vg-10 etc. you feel makes them so superior ?
I use 154-cm, 440c and 1095 almost exclusivly in the knives i make, i think its a good steel and i like it.

The saying "if it ain't broke don't fix it" comes to mind. :thumbup:
 
gine said:
I am a huge fan of emerson knives.I was woundering if anyone knows why emerson doesn't use the newest and best steels to offer.The 154cm is not even close to the best steel on the market for examle I'll name 5 better right now( vg-10,cpm s30v,zdp-189,sg2,cowry x.):jerkit::yawn::confused:
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I have wondered exactly the same thing. Clearly, any of the steels that you have mentioned would be a better choice. One needs to take into account though the parameter of the cost: all the steels that you have mentioned are more costly to buy and, most likely, they have more complex and subsequently more costly heat treatment protocols. Therefore, if Emerson knives decided to switch to any of the above-mentioned steels, they should: a) either increase their prices so that they retain their current profit margin or, b) retain their current price levels but reduce their current profit margins. Those are some tough decisions to be made!
 
Lycosa said:
Good question. He likes 154-CM and I don't think He'll switch. You forgot to mention ole faithful---- Tool steel, like A-2.
Lycosa
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Good point:thumbup:! I have nothing but good words for this ole faithful steel. However, one thing that we need to consider is that for many people the fact that A2 is not stainless would be an issue. I have been using A2, 1095, 1080, 1084, W-1, L6, 5160, 52100 for many years now and I never had an issue with rust but I am very meticulous about maintenance with all of my knives. Not too many people are willing to do that though, despite the fact that all these steels if heat-treated correctly, they will out cut almost any stainless steel blade.
 
Haze said:
Is there something wrong with 154-CM :confused:
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154CM is a difficult steel to sharpen because it is a high carbide steel with an extremely irregular and large carbide structure. It has a low grindability but at the same time is often fairly soft and deforms easily. It can thus be very difficult to get a crisp edge to form and then it doesn't hold it well anyway. I have been consistently able to obtain sharper and more durable edges on pocketknives that I have with either VG-10 or, S30V Vs. 154CM. This of course doesn't mean that the entire knife community should stop using 154CM however, it is not in par with either VG-10 or, S30V. I think that this test, is indicative to a some degree of my observations as well.
 
Andros--- Well said. I have come to this conclusion: In the Knife Business, you will run into some pretty Big egos. An excellent idea will be adopted by one company and rejected by another. Years ago, Emerson Knives told me they will not do a Frame-lock on their folders. Years ago, Spyderco told me they would not manufacture a folder that their customers can disassemble. Also, they told me they would not do a flat grind cause most of their customers preferred the hollow grind. You got me! It keeps things interesting. Get what you like! Me--- Hd-7 with a Krein Grind!
Lycosa
 
I like that EKI doesn't jump at each new wonder steel. I wouldn't mind if they used a new steel after extensive preparation and research into it, but my Emerson is a "use hard, put away wet" kind of tool that is called on to cut roots out of the ground and scrape adhesive. 154CM works well without rusting, chipping or any of the other common complaints I hear about other steels.
 
Jon--- If you like your Emerson for dirty work, you'd love Mission's MPF- titanium! I thought 154-CM will rust if put away wet?
Lycosa
 
Thought about this some more. My Emersons are for defense, and nothing more. If I want to do utility cutting chores, I have a multi-tool, and I have a huge pile of Bucks, Al Mars, Gerbers, SOGs, and Cold Steels that I don't give a hoot if I absolutely ruin doing everyday utility cutting chores.

All I need my Emerson for is to cut a seat belt or cut a bad guy in a confrontation that will likely last maybe 10 seconds. I don't care about the details of long term "edge retention" or whether it will "rust" or whatever, I just need it to save my life! I won't even bother to sharpen it.....I'll just go buy a new one the next day.......
 
I have had a good history of use with 440C, ATS-34/154CM, and 1095 steels. They have all done every cutting job I've asked of them. I currently carry a ZDP-189 SE Delica as my work EDC. Other than going for longer periods of time without sharpening, I don't see much else gained. You would think I am only 1 step above knapping flint for my knife from this tone of this post. While it is good there are companies out there trying out new steels, ie. Spyderco, I'm glad there are companies out there still putting out a good product with a good steel at a stable price point.

Edit: 1 of the reasons Emerson Knives uses 154CM is because it is made in America.
 
Halfneck said:
Edit: 1 of the reasons Emerson Knives uses 154CM is because it is made in America.
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I hear you on that one, Ernie is good about keeping the jobs and matierals going in america. Unfortunately another one of my favorite knife companies has gone over seas, and not even the "good" overseas, buck. Why did they have to go to china? It's kind of hard to say "an american tradition" when the damn things are made in China!!!

I'll stop ranting cause this is for the other forum. But yes, 154cm is american made and that is why emerson uses it, besides, when it came out it was the "super steel" of its day, much like S30V now.
 
Because Buck is exploiting people working for 15 hours a day for slave wages. Whats more American than that? :P Cheap labor = more money.

Where is S30V made?
 
DeathByCactus said:
Because Buck is exploiting people working for 15 hours a day for slave wages. Whats more American than that? :P Cheap labor = more money.

Where is S30V made?
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I'll have to check on that, but I thought that Crucible was american. I guess now I'll have to google it or I won't be able to concentrate all day ;).

Edit: I found it, crucible is american, so S30V is too since they created it.

"2001 - Developed stainless tool steel CPM® S30V® for applications requiring improved corrosion and wear resistance."
http://www.crucibleservice.com/literature/keyDevelopments.cfm
 
GO--- RECON--- GO!! That's why I carry my Emerson. But the zero grind is just so nasty look'n and efficient. And Cactus, I believe A-2 will out cut 154-CM. Ya just gotta keep a light coat of oil on the blade to protect er.
Lycosa
 
There is no "best steel" in an overall context. The very fact that a company like Emerson uses 154 exclusively means it has developed a body of experience with it that enables them to get the performance they want.

In a real-world sense, the small increments of performance they might get by changing steels wouldn't be worth the learning curve in the manufacturing process or the price for that to the customer.
 
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