Encouraging progress in the fight against knock-offs?

I would love to see counterfeit knives done away with, and replaced with at least somewhat original designs. Many of the counterfeits are made with surprising quality, so if they made their own knives there is a market space for them.

I won't buy a "Chris Reeve" Sebenza for $50, but I could consider something similar looking that has been changed with things like lefty clip drilling for $50.
 
I agree, I don't know why they spend the time and materials making knock-offs when they could just change the design ever-so-slightly and make their own knives under their own company label.
The past few years have proven that the market is open to quality made products from Chinese manufacturers, so why go the copy-cat route?

I really don't understand the point of knock-off knives anyway.

Knock-off designer or "high fashion" stuff I get, because usually the materials used are the same, it's just the design and brand recognition you're paying for.
That fake Gucci bag or pair of fake Air Jordans isn't going to be that far off from the real thing. Even so, it's mostly about impressing other people, since you already know your stuff is fake. With knives, who is being impressed here?
If you whip out your fake Sebenza, are any of your friends even going to even know what a Sebenza is? Or that it's a $500 knife??
 
I think Anyone Who has Ever actually "Created" anything would find exception to rip-offs in any form beit "knock-off", "counterfeit" - who cares.
Somebody dreamt up, perfected, and made something that then some dirtbag, that wouldn't know an original idea if it jumped up and bit his ass, then goes and makes having incurred NONE of the R&D, throw aways, waste and experimentation costs that the original maker DID.

It isn't right no matter how it gets spun. WE can Police OUR OWN ranks within the Knife Community but we won't. Why?

Too many weak minded and/or self- interested people.

It's too bad. Sad
 
I am not sure how this will work out.
Legislation doesn't seem to work well with China....

We shouldn't need it.

The principal behind buying a knockoff's and how it effects industry, jobs, creative design and development should be enough to get people to stop buying them.

At the end of the day, if nobody bought counterfeit items, there wouldn't be any.
 
RubiconSS said:
I think Anyone Who has Ever actually "Created" anything would find exception to rip-offs in any form beit "knock-off", "counterfeit" - who cares.
Somebody dreamt up, perfected, and made something that then some dirtbag, that wouldn't know an original idea if it jumped up and bit his ass, then goes and makes having incurred NONE of the R&D, throw aways, waste and experimentation costs that the original maker DID.

It isn't right no matter how it gets spun. WE can Police OUR OWN ranks within the Knife Community but we won't. Why?

Too many weak minded and/or self- interested people.

It's too bad. Sad
Click to expand...


I wish there was a way.

This might sound a little harsh, but people who buy counterfeit knives are not part of my knife community.
This is the one place I expect the ramifications to be understood.

We need to get back to a 500% tax on anything made anywhere but in the USA.
That would solve every economic issue, but the corporations just wouldn't approve.

Not to get off topic and political, I apologize, but the biggest market in the world by a country mile could easily make and consume it's own goods....
 
I agree completely. I don't even understand the demand for such products.

When I was in the 7th grade, I bought a fake Rolex for $10 from a guy on the street in Times Square who had a bunch of fake watches in a briefcase.
As a 7th grader, I thought it would be cool to look like I had a Rolex, and let's be real, $10 is pretty cheap for ANY functional metal timepiece, so I went for it.

Obviously I was not fooling anyone, but it made me feel cool. And other people knew what it was supposed to be. That's the key right there.

Everyone knows what a Rolex is.
Nobody knows what a Sebenza is.

So why are you buying a fake one for $50 on some Chinese website? Why not just get, I dunno, a Spyderco Tenacious? Or something like that?
 
Rasco said:
I agree completely. I don't even understand the demand for such products.

When I was in the 7th grade, I bought a fake Rolex for $10 from a guy on the street in Times Square who had a bunch of fake watches in a briefcase.
As a 7th grader, I thought it would be cool to look like I had a Rolex, and let's be real, $10 is pretty cheap for ANY functional metal timepiece, so I went for it.

Obviously I was not fooling anyone, but it made me feel cool. And other people knew what it was supposed to be. That's the key right there.

Everyone knows what a Rolex is.
Nobody knows what a Sebenza is.

So why are you buying a fake one for $50 on some Chinese website? Why not just get, I dunno, a Spyderco Tenacious? Or something like that?
Click to expand...

The demand comes from our really cool learned behaviour to be consumers at any cost.....
Even to the point where if it looks like the real thing but it's dirt cheap, then all the better.

You can convince yourself of anything except the fact that maybe you just can't afford something at the moment.
 
Rasco said:
I agree, I don't know why they spend the time and materials making knock-offs when they could just change the design ever-so-slightly and make their own knives under their own company label.
The past few years have proven that the market is open to quality made products from Chinese manufacturers, so why go the copy-cat route?
Click to expand...

I read somewhere that in China people want copies of expensive Western goods instead of new original designs. Same goes for cars, etc. It sells well. Different culture.
 
People want stuff. Unfortunately some of that stuff is really exspensive wether it be handbags or knives. Some people will step in to fill a price point gap in the market that is neglected by manufactures. If you agree or disagree with knockoffs you should at least understand that. Many of you will disagree but you could almost say manufactures kind of bring this situation on themselves. Sometimes I feel knockoffs do very little to hurt the original brand because the people that buy the fake product would've never bought the real thing in the first place. When counterfeiters try to pass off and charge full price as if it is the real product then I feel that is a serious crime. However if you are paying $100 for something that looks like a Strider knife you know cost a $1000... you know what you are doing and you know what you are getting. Most people will never be able to afford some of these custom knives and buying a copy is the only way they will get a chance to own something like them. Also I feel owning a fake item only makes people want the real thing more. The bigger lesson to be learned by manufactures may be if you don't want your products to be copied don't send them to foreign countries with little to no copy right laws to be made and shipped backed to America to be sold. The fashion industry is full of a bunch of slime balls. Charging large sums of money for clothes that cost very little to make and pay pennies to the people that do the manufacturing work. It's sad when you go into almost any store in America, walk ten feet in any direction, and you can find next to nothing hanging on the racks or setting on the shelves that was actually made in America.
 
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Goosey said:
I read somewhere that in China people want copies of expensive Western goods instead of new original designs. Same goes for cars, etc. It sells well. Different culture.
Click to expand...

This makes sense to me. Still not sure I believe knives are as "status symbol-y" as watches, purses and shoes, but ok.
 
Well at least it will force people to find a new source. Everybody knows about this source now...
 
I don't understand where the demand comes from, personally. Many of the manufacturers and designers who are respected on this and other forums are nowhere near "household names" among the majority of would-be buyers who just want a knife that will cut something and maybe look cool. Those buyers have probably heard of Buck and Gerber and Schrade, and maybe Kershaw, SOG, CRKT and a few other brands that can be found in the big box stores. Gun enthusiasts might be inclined to buy a Browning or Smith & Wesson knife because of brand recognition. A fan of Bear Grylls or Les Stroud might buy something with a familiar face on the package. I can understand those knives being copied in varying degrees of detail, because there is a definite opportunity to capitalize on the legit companies' marketing efforts. But I just don't see enough of a realistic demand for counterfeit high(er) dollar knives that aren't familiar to most people outside of the enthusiast crowd. Sure, maybe every now and then, you run into someone who is familiar with Benchmade or Spyderco, but enough to make it worthwhile for counterfeiters to expend much effort to lure in unwitting buyers?

Then again, it happens with musical instruments, to the point of amazingly accurate, detailed knock-offs capable of fooling experts. I guess I shouldn't be surprised.
 
ChrisLee said:
People want stuff. Unfortunately some of that stuff is really exspensive wether it be handbags or knives. Some people will step in to fill a price point gap in the market that is neglected by manufactures. If you agree or disagree with knockoffs you should at least understand that. Many of you will disagree but you could almost say manufactures kind of bring this situation on themselves. Sometimes I feel knockoffs do very little to hurt the original brand because the people that buy the fake product would've never bought the real thing in the first place. When counterfeiters try to pass off and charge full price as if it is the real product then I feel that is a serious crime. However if you are paying $100 for something that looks like a Strider knife you know cost a $1000... you know what you are doing and you know what you are getting. Most people will never be able to afford some of these custom knives and buying a copy is the only way they will get a chance to own something like them. Also I feel owning a fake item only makes people want the real thing more. The bigger lesson to be learned by manufactures may be if you don't want your products to be copied don't send them to foreign countries with little to no copy right laws to be made and shipped backed to America to be sold. The fashion industry is full of a bunch of slim balls. Charging large sums of money for clothes that cost very little to make and pay pennies to the people that do the manufacturing work. It's sad when you go into almost any store in America, walk ten feet in any direction, and you can find next to nothing hanging on the racks or setting on the shelves that was actually made in America.
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Excellent post, and it hits the nail on the head in multiple areas. One thing I think isn't touched on is that if we truly went back to producing everything in America, it'd be so expensive no one would want to buy many of the things they buy today. Yes, I'm aware that there are some American companies who are making it work, but I don't think all of them could. Things would be staggeringly expensive across a broad range of goods. This is my opinion only, and I'm aware that not all will agree with that. Frankly, there are a ton of things of foreign manufacture that I've bought because I knew I didn't need the best, just the cheapest available. As an example, I've got an impact wrench from Harbor Freight. They had a sale on, plus I had a coupon. I think it ran me $27. I only needed it for a single job. I think I've used it...three times? Three times in the last four years. No way would I have paid what it would have cost for an American made impact wrench. Now, all my hand tools however, are American made. Craftsman or better. OLD Craftsman, not the Crapsman stuff they sell today at whatever Sears stores are left.
 
I think anyone that has any once of respect for the amount of time and effort that goes into making quality knives, would be against fakes.. I can understand not being able to afford a sebenza and wanting one. BUT there are plenty of knives out there at anyone's price point that are genuinely made svc and will give you the same satisfaction.
A while back, I bought what I thought was a real strider pt off of flea bay.. it ended up being fake and the guy knew it, screwed me over and never responded back.. so now it sits in a drawer and I wouldn't use it to cut a dog terd if I had to..

But everyone is entitled to their opinion, that's one nice thing about a community like this..
 
Rasco said:
Well at least it will force people to find a new source. Everybody knows about this source now...
Click to expand...

But with a quick Google search that's easy. It's much more of a systemic problem overall, going after one website won't do a thing unless they go after the entire trade route and access.
 
I would love if manufacturers worked together more, like have Hinderer allow a company to take his designs and treat some stuff and make some moderate changes to say this is how they would make that knife, of this is the knife tweaked to their tastes. That way the designer gets credit, and the maker is good to go. I would love to see how other people would reimagine popular and we'll known designs.
 
Rasco said:
I agree completely. I don't even understand the demand for such products.

When I was in the 7th grade, I bought a fake Rolex for $10 from a guy on the street in Times Square who had a bunch of fake watches in a briefcase.
As a 7th grader, I thought it would be cool to look like I had a Rolex, and let's be real, $10 is pretty cheap for ANY functional metal timepiece, so I went for it.

Obviously I was not fooling anyone, but it made me feel cool. And other people knew what it was supposed to be. That's the key right there.

Everyone knows what a Rolex is.
Nobody knows what a Sebenza is.

So why are you buying a fake one for $50 on some Chinese website? Why not just get, I dunno, a Spyderco Tenacious? Or something like that?
Click to expand...

You start a thread bemoaning counterfeit goods, and go on to justify your own purchase of counterfeit goods. The only difference you draw is by whose ox is getting gored here.

I've been a critic of counterfeit goods here, but a vigorous defender of copied designs. But your own example gives a qualified justification of counterfeit products. I mean, really, someone looking to buy a a $10 Rolex (or $10 Sebenza for that matter) simply wouldn't say, "aw shucks, looks like I'll have to buy the real thing" if the counterfeit was not available. It's hard to argue that such ridiculous counterfeits actually steal sales from the sources of inspiration. It's even hard to say in such cases that their reputations are harmed, since such niche items are sought by people who are quite knowledgeable in the field. Regardless, counterfeits, even when ridiculous, are and should remain illegal.

Knock-off designer or "high fashion" stuff I get, because usually the materials used are the same, it's just the design and brand recognition you're paying for.
That fake Gucci bag or pair of fake Air Jordans isn't going to be that far off from the real thing. Even so, it's mostly about impressing other people, since you already know your stuff is fake. With knives, who is being impressed here?
If you whip out your fake Sebenza, are any of your friends even going to even know what a Sebenza is? Or that it's a $500 knife??
Click to expand...

Frankly, I think knife nuttery often manifests itself very much like the fashion industry and its products. This very forum exists and thrives on knife nuts who not only like to share their opinions on their superior favorites, but treating those choices as the very personal, character extolling reflections of themselves. The only difference is that we're mostly males, and our objects of admiration are basically man-baubles with sharp edges. Which some of us take pride in spending amounts that non knife nuts would find absurd. Frankly, if nobody is impressed with your $500 knife, just ask yourself, what exactly makes it worth $500, to you.
 
RubiconSS said:
I think Anyone Who has Ever actually "Created" anything would find exception to rip-offs in any form beit "knock-off", "counterfeit" - who cares.
Somebody dreamt up, perfected, and made something that then some dirtbag, that wouldn't know an original idea if it jumped up and bit his ass, then goes and makes having incurred NONE of the R&D, throw aways, waste and experimentation costs that the original maker DID.

It isn't right no matter how it gets spun. WE can Police OUR OWN ranks within the Knife Community but we won't. Why?

Too many weak minded and/or self- interested people.

It's too bad. Sad
Click to expand...

😒👏🏻👍🏻..
 
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