Which of these folders would make the best self defense back up to a ccw? The Endura would open the fastest(if you use the wave)but the lock might not be as strong as the Recon or 710. The Endura also is kind of a light weight to medium folder not as strong overall as the other two? The Recon would have the strongest lock of the three but it does not have the detent like the Endura does. It opens slower than the other two as well. The handle on the Recon feels like it was made for my hand. The choil would keep your hand from slipping on to the blade during thrust cutting. The 710's lock is fast and smooth and very quick to open also very strong. The handle is slippery and does not have the best guard but it is very thin which is nice for carry. The steel offered on all of the models is not a huge concern because I have other knives for utility. Which knife do you think would serve this purpose best and what other pros/cons do you think one model offers over the other for this role? Thanks
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Endura Wave v. Recon 1 2010 v. BM710
- Thread starter Kutz
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DennisStrickland
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the 710 offers the best option of these factors: fast, strong enough & although not as slim a carry as the endura it's slim enough. the recon is sturdier but for man cutting the bench 710 is plenty strong.
dennis
dennis
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I own a 710 and have owned a Endura Wave.
In my opinion, of course, I think the Endura would make for a better SD knife.
Endura: Slim profile, thumb Ramp, wave feature [blade opened and locked out of the pocket], bi directional grip is excellent, and the handle is super long for good reach.
The 710 has a longer blade/cutting edge, but as you mentioned the handle is somewhat smooth and short in comparison to the Endura and there is no thumb ramp to help prevent your hand going over onto the blade if thrusting.
My opinion is based on the fact that I have no knife training. Since I am not trained to fight or defend with a knife I think in a panic situation the wave feature would come in handy vs. fumbling with the 710 trying to flick the blade out.
Honestly if you are defending against a living organism I don't think any kind of lock would fail against flesh. Especially the locks on the three knives you are referring to.
In my opinion, of course, I think the Endura would make for a better SD knife.
Endura: Slim profile, thumb Ramp, wave feature [blade opened and locked out of the pocket], bi directional grip is excellent, and the handle is super long for good reach.
The 710 has a longer blade/cutting edge, but as you mentioned the handle is somewhat smooth and short in comparison to the Endura and there is no thumb ramp to help prevent your hand going over onto the blade if thrusting.
My opinion is based on the fact that I have no knife training. Since I am not trained to fight or defend with a knife I think in a panic situation the wave feature would come in handy vs. fumbling with the 710 trying to flick the blade out.
Honestly if you are defending against a living organism I don't think any kind of lock would fail against flesh. Especially the locks on the three knives you are referring to.
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710 handle is somewhat smooth and short in comparison to the Endura?
really?
Kutz - forger about using a knife for SD. Since you got no knife fighting skills - either you will be killed with your own knife
or your proctologist will have a hell of a story to tell over cocktails. just get some pepper spray.
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710 handle is somewhat smooth and short in comparison to the Endura?
really?
Ok so the handles are about the same, but the endura is a wee bit longer. As far as the bi directional grip, I do believe it to have much more grip than that of the smooth g10 on the 710.
Just answering the OP's question honestly...
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I assume the OP is asking about knives after mentioning that he has a CCW is because the general train of thought is that the attacker will be too close to use anything at range. I don't think pepper spray at point blank is a particularly bright idea.710 handle is somewhat smooth and short in comparison to the Endura?
really?
Kutz - forger about using a knife for SD. Since you got no knife fighting skills - either you will be killed with your own knife
or your proctologist will have a hell of a story to tell over cocktails. just get some pepper spray.
As for a good SD knife, I prefer any of Emerson's wave opening knives. The G10 makes for a good grip, the titanium liner lock is certainly strong enough for its purpose, and they come in all sizes(Super, normal, and mini).
Though I wouldn't disregard a ZT 0300 series either, with the bonus that it is by itself a very good hard use folder that won't break the bank.
But I find that there is nothing more disappointing than a knife you don't use, so I would just pick out a hard use folder that you might use every once and a while, clip it to your pocket, and call that your "self-defense knife". At the very least, using it often will leave you with a familiar tool in your hand rather than that Super Karambit I carry around but don't have a clue how to properly use(which I will promptly replace with a ZT 0350CB as soon as it comes in the mail).
This is a good idea!
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pepper gel or a stun gun will do just fine. I think it's time for people to realize - if you wanna use knife for SD - you need extensive training. using knife for SD requires more training than using a gun. And when it comes to a knife for SD - Boker/JIM WAGNER is second to non
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Just 3 steps.
1. Find the dull end.
2.Hold the dull end.
3, Stick the pointy end into attacker.
4. Repeat to failure.
Do these steps only after talking, running away,and hiding have failed.
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as I wrote before - trying that against skilled attacker will produce 2 possible outcomes - either you will be killed with your own knife
or your proctologist will have a hell of a story to tell over cocktails - don't believe me? - talk to any martial artist you know
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Sounds simpler than it really is.
If you just shove the pointy end in anywhere, you have to wait for your attacker to bleed out before he stops(which can take a few minutes), at which time he will still be attacking you. But if you slash his weapon arm, he will stop NOW.
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I do believe you, I train in FMA. That was tongue in cheek, just forgot to put a smiley. It's also not as simple as it sounds, if the defender is agile, athletic, and determined.
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Actually, given that the average citizen doesn't have any martial arts training, and that quite a few of them are adapted for sports, it's doubtful that anyone would have a chance in such a situation.
However, the question is what precisely is the attacker "skilled" in? If he's skilled at using a knife in combat and you're not, that just seems like common sense that you'll have your butt handed to you. And is it really any different with a gun or pepper spray, at least at point blank?
If however your attacker is skilled in unarmed combat while your only skill is slashing randomly with a knife, I still wouldn't put the final word in. While I'm sure there are techniques to disarm an opponent, I doubt any of those guys actually tried it in a real situation as opposed to practice in a dojo where your opponent is an immobile retard allowing himself to be disarmed rather than someone dedicated to ending your life at any cost.
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using practised self defence moves that are hoaned same way countless times by repeating movement is not clear victory since unskilled blade user never attacks way like they did in practise.
The randomness has huge effect and considering all the speed and such, I doubt nobody can't disarm knife user bare handed like in movies, not without getting cut. Practise is completely different from life and death situation like Noctis3880 said.
Life ain't movie and real situation ain't practise situation. Best defence is avoiding situation. If you get in situation do whatever necessary for not escalating situation. Wallet is small price getting away unharmed.
Now when it comes to knives, I like Spyderco series. I would say Endura. Its slim, durable, has good steel and emerson opener is handy bottle opener too.
The randomness has huge effect and considering all the speed and such, I doubt nobody can't disarm knife user bare handed like in movies, not without getting cut. Practise is completely different from life and death situation like Noctis3880 said.
Life ain't movie and real situation ain't practise situation. Best defence is avoiding situation. If you get in situation do whatever necessary for not escalating situation. Wallet is small price getting away unharmed.
Now when it comes to knives, I like Spyderco series. I would say Endura. Its slim, durable, has good steel and emerson opener is handy bottle opener too.
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Guys, let's not turn this into a debate about SD training. I train often and have my own personal vews on this, but the OP is asking about three specific knives not about our training philosophy.
Anyway, onto the OP's question. The three knives you're considering are good, I wouldn't mind carrying any of them. However, my pick would be the Endura wave. The handle offers great purchase, the lock is strong, the blade has a good shape for both SD and utility work (VG-10 is great steel) and the wave opening feature is wicked fast. It also carries really well. Another bonus is that there's a dedicated trainer available from Spyderco, so you can practice with the very same knife you'll carry.
Anyway, onto the OP's question. The three knives you're considering are good, I wouldn't mind carrying any of them. However, my pick would be the Endura wave. The handle offers great purchase, the lock is strong, the blade has a good shape for both SD and utility work (VG-10 is great steel) and the wave opening feature is wicked fast. It also carries really well. Another bonus is that there's a dedicated trainer available from Spyderco, so you can practice with the very same knife you'll carry.
