Endura Wave v. Recon 1 2010 v. BM710

cziv said:
None of these are a match for my cool headed mannerism and then an explosive spinning motion while using my Steven Seagal credit card with razor blade edge. This handy card makes blood withdrawals from all of the bad guy's necks instantly! :eek: :D
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Please credit card! Nothing beats my laminated Blockbuster membership card. :D

In a serious note, I used to own all three. I have to let go of the Recon 1. Not because of it is a bad knife, rather I find it uncomfortable to carry. The BM 710 is a very good knife; easy to open/close, excellet reach and it carries well. However the G10 scales are the smootest amongst the three. The waved endura is the best for me, it is slim, light, top notch grip and has excellet reach.
 
I dont own either so I'm afraid I dont realy have anything to add. But with the smoothness factor if you dont mind modifying your knife then I have seen some people take a simple small diamond file and file patterns in g10 to aid in grip.
 
I would go with the Endura, for three reasons: cost, weight, speed.

First, it's cheap. Cheapest of the three knives. If you lose it, break it or drop it - just shrug it off and get another one. You do NOT want "Oh, crap, I just dropped a $900 custom knife, what if it chips!" thought in your head in an SD situation. Heck, have TWO Enduras, or an Endura and a Delica. Consider a scenario where your Endura is clipped to your right-front pocket but your right arm is pinned and you can't quite reach it with the left - having a backup Delica in your left hip pocket (I'm wearing cargo shorts right now) would be handy indeed.

Second, it's lighter than the other two knives. The lighter and more unobtrusive it is, the more likely you are to have it on you. This is a sad fact of life. You know what my chances are of leaving my house without my Spyderco Ladybug? Near zero, it's attached to my house keys. Same principle applies to the Endura, just grabbing it and dropping it into the pocket of your pajama pants while stepping outside to take the garbage to the curb at 5AM may mean the difference between having it on you when you need it and not having it. Why might you hesitate to drop say a ZT0300 into your pajama pants? Too heavy, gets in the way, pulls pants down, distracting, etc.

Third, speed of deployment. I'm sorry, but I truly believe Endura w/Wave can be presented and ready far faster than the other two knives with equivalent training. With the other two knives, you need to draw and either index the thumbstud and open, or flick. With a wave knife, all you do is pull the knife out, and it's good to go.

Don't get me wrong, I think BM710 is a good choice too. I find the scales on the handle are more than grippy enough, and keep in mind that the top and the bottom of the handle where it flares out near the blade have teeth on it for a very secure grip, I don't think the grip I can get on 710 is in any way inferior to the grip I can get on the Endura. The Endura will have a bigger thumbrest, but the 710 will have very positive traction with both my thumb and my index finger.

The Recon 1 I have least experience with, just had one for about a week. Handle shape wasn't memorable, it was thicker and heavier, didn't really leave a positive impression with me.

Based on that, my vote is for Endura, or Endura + Delica instead of BM710 or Recon 1.
 
I've got all three, and love them all

I took out the thumbstuds of both the recon 1 and the 710, and threaded a ziptie in to make the jerry-rigged wave function, so for all those posts on speed, they are equally fast to me.

Given that, I would use the Recon 1, best grip and excellent g10 texturing.

Take the endura and pinch the tip, and try to wiggle it (as if you are going to test blade play). I have the FFG g10 version and the saber ground waved version. BOTH of these wiggle for me.. not actually because they have blade play, but because the actual steel blade is rather thin.

The FFG endura is the best slicer I own, so please no flaming from the spyderco fanboys, but I wouldn't use it for SD use.

The 710 I like a lot, but the grip really is too smooth. So for me, the choice of clear. Recon 1 gets my vote
 
benyaM95 Ranger Knif said:
pepper gel or a stun gun will do just fine. I think it's time for people to realize - if you wanna use knife for SD - you need extensive training. using knife for SD requires more training than using a gun. And when it comes to a knife for SD - Boker/JIM WAGNER is second to non
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Sorry guys, it looks like I am a little late for the SD thread drift, but I typed this up and then read the rest of the posts where we all get back on topic. So here is my worthless thread drift opinion on the matter.:o

I think fundamentally you are correct. To correctly use a knife defensively does require extensive training. But I respectfully disagree from a real world perspective. I work in a major city emergency room and see GSW and knife wounds all day long. It would be safe to bet that most of these are inflicted by crack heads and pimps with $5 box cutters. I am not being condescending or silly I am being honest. These people don’t have any training and still inflict devastating wounds. A knife can still be VERY devastating even in the hands of an untrained individual.
That being said, I am a firm believer in NOT bringing a knife to a gun fight. What I mean by that is I would hate to have to rely on using a knife against an attacker that has a gun. Or against an attacker that has a knife and is trained in using it. I am going to loose that battle. But I have also spent over 13 years on the city streets working EMS, and I have seen people get robbed/attacked with all sorts of weapons. I have seen many people beaten/robbed with bricks, sign posts, claw hammers, bottles even golf clubs. My point is that if someone comes at me with a brick in their hand, you better believe that my EDC knife is transitioning from tool to defensive tool. In that situation I think I would rather have the knife than the brick. I think people sell short the value of a knife even in untrained hands for defensive work. Is it ideal? No, not at all. But if it is all you have then you better use it.

Like I said, I do basically agree with you. But it seems like every time someone posts about a defensive knife some one says what you said. I think about it like this. If you were changing your tire and someone attacked you would you not grab the tire iron? I know that doesn’t mean the tire iron is a good defensive tool but it is a hell of a lot better than a fist and angry words. Just my opinion.
 
you are better off with a tire iron as a SD "weapon"
in my opinion SD "weapon" must prevent a fight, firstly.
and a golf club or a tire iron look more aggressively than
a 4" blade.
PS 4" blade is useless if you're attacked with any club-type weapon
unless...... you guessed it - you have special skills.
and, please, explain how is the stun gun is less effective then a knife in CQB?
 
a handful of gravel [if time] is good enough for escape. regardless how capable you are you can have a bad day & slip on a pop top. if one is definitely going to be serious with a knife then i suggest the morning excercise in front of a large mirror. index & draw your knife , practice a forehead cut 50 to 60 times a morning. this allows nearly a sure victory if attack is pressed. if the attacker is intellingent he will withdraw since bleeding in the eyes is a disadvantage. 3 months down the road if you practice you will not be able to see your hand move since the movement becomes so rapid.i'm sure there is much dissagreement about this concept--but works for me.
dennis
 
If one was attcked by someone who really knows what they are doing you wouldn't have the time or even a chance to pull any of them out and defend yourself. You will never see it coming and it would be over before you could blink. ;)

You would be dead and or bleeding to death on the ground before you could even react.

Anyway...

I would pick the BM 710 out of that list if you had the chance to react and were cornered with no exit so you could run or there wasn't anything else at hand to defend yourself with that you could pick up.

Most knife killings are in the home with kitchen knives and in prison with shanks.

Knife fights out in the world are a fairytale for the most part, they do happen but one would have a better chance winning the lottery than ever getting into a knife fight. One that the fencing type so called teachers tend to push.
 
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benyaM95 Ranger Knif said:
you are better off with a tire iron as a SD "weapon"
in my opinion SD "weapon" must prevent a fight, firstly.
and a golf club or a tire iron look more aggressively than
a 4" blade.
PS 4" blade is useless if you're attacked with any club-type weapon
unless...... you guessed it - you have special skills.
and, please, explain how is the stun gun is less effective then a knife in CQB?
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Yes, I would like a tire iron as well(more reach), but I'd like to see you EDC a tire iron.

IMO, the only true SD weapon that "prevents" a fight is pepper spray. You don't pull a gun/tire iron/knife just because you're spooked or intimidated. Escalating the situation with lethal force has legal implications.

I'd say the only criteria an SD weapon needs to fulfill is that it saves your life(i.e. you were about to die or get seriously injured in the next 10 seconds).

Also, anyone who has a club or golf club or baseball bat and is NOT attending a social sport is intending to mug or kill someone. One more reason why they fail as a "self-defense" weapon outside of your home, because you can't carry them around without looking like a criminal.

Pocket knives on the other hand, are small, light, portable, and easily concealable.

I also assume that stun guns are more bulky, does not incapacitate for a long enough time to be worth jack squat, and has more limitations regarding ownership(I know I can't get one).

P.S.
This really ought to be moved over to Prac Tac.
 
I honestly don't think it matters which knife you choose among those listed. Any differences will be subsumed by factors like who acts first, who is intoxicated and who is not, and who is the most lucky. I would go with the Recon 1, as it fills my hand the best, is plenty fast to open, and it the most sturdy of the bunch. But again, I don't think it really matters. JMO.
 
powernoodle said:
I honestly don't think it matters which knife you choose among those listed. Any differences will be subsumed by factors like who acts first, who is intoxicated and who is not, and who is the most lucky. I would go with the Recon 1, as it fills my hand the best, is plenty fast to open, and it the most sturdy of the bunch. But again, I don't think it really matters. JMO.
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Agree with this!

your signature thingie still has me LMAO. :D
 
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