"Entry level" vs "professional" grinders

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Feb 18, 2016
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So I'm building my own grinder. Well I'm in the planning stages at least. And I've looked at almost every grinder on the market from KMG, to the Oregon blade maker. I've been trying to disect each grinder and take the parts I like from it to build my own. I've read ALOT of reviews and it seems the general consensus is its either "entry level " AKA "eh it's alright but not XYZ that's professional" well in your mind what constitutes a professional vs entry level? From most I've looked at they're either an abbreviation of either the KMG or the TAG from wilmont. So what makes the KMG professional and the Oregon blade maker (which looks ALOT like the TDM the same maker that Chris collaborated with to make the little buddy) same with the pheer 454? To ME Ithat seems like the LB1000 is way more versatile than the KMG (multiple arm slots, direct drive) So exactly what make one better? I understand the KMG is built like a tank with 3/4 and 1/2 steel.
 
i have had my LB1000 for 3+ years. no issues at all. i like the direct drive and the ports for 2 tooling arms that are "standard" 1 1/2" square so you can easily make your own. the blade tension cylinder is still strong and the blade tracking wheel works great. I mounted it on a 1 1/2" hard maple block and have no issue with vibration. i have a VFD driving the motor, so other than a fancy tooling arm i might use once a year, i can't think of anything it is missing. I have used the Wilmont TAG grinder, it can lie down, the LB1000 can't.
are you ready for some weather? we started looking for our candles and oil lamps earlier tonight.
scott
 
That was my thinking. The grinder I'm building is going to be very heavily influenced by the LB 1000. Instead of the spacers he uses I'm going to use 2x2 .250 square tubing and the side plates will be .250 welded to the square tubing. Yeah its supposed to be pretty crazy. The wife has been out shopping for hours getting all the necessity in order and I have a few dead trees I need to cut down
 
Professional vs Entry Level.... Bells & Whistles....Fit & Finish....What's the difference on Air Conditioning in a Chevy vs Climate Control in a Cadillac.

Time is money so today's marketing strategy is to build in as many Bells & Whistles to improve efficiency and raise the price from a standard unit to show a time savings which equates to a better bottom line. A professional can turn out a great piece on a crappy machine because of skill level where as a novice will still have issues with the most expensive equipment because of skill level. Unless you have a great skill set and well equipped shop building equipment can be as expensive or more expensive than buying equipment.

Mike
 
What makes grinder A different than grinder B? Why is A "x" price, and B "y" price?

There are plenty of factors involved, from the manufacturing process, to the fit and finish, to the material choices, or even the options/accessories offered. Now, does any of that make one grinder better than another? After all, aren't they all just rotating an abrasive belt at the end of the day? Well, yes and no....

An experienced maker can likely grind a good knife on just about any machine, but there is something to be said about the convenience of certain bells and whistles, or even using a machine with a high degree of fit and finish, vs one that has, for example, a sloppy tool arm fit, or an inferior tension system.

At the end of the say, it's really a personal choice/preference when it comes down to it, I suppose.
 
Now that I actually have a grinder, I see that there isn't much to it. Couple of wheels and a sturdy frame. You could build a fine grinder from two-by-fours.
 
Most all knife grinders are copies of the basic KMG/Bader style. The differences are in the number of tool/work arm slots, metal thickness, bored vs threaded holes, accesories, etc.

To make something professional grade, the difference is mostly in durability. It is usually heavier built from heavier or higher quality materials. Professional tools are used for many hours a day, not a few days a month. They must be able to run for hours without issues. They need features like fine adjustment, and simple use.

On a grinder build the difference may be only a couple hundred dollars, but the difference in longevity may be many years.
1) Use heavy steel and weld everything that can be welded. The heavier the base plate the better.
2) Wherever possible, use a threaded hole, not a nut and bolt. Use grade 5 or grade 8 bolts.
3) Use good grade wheels and bearings. The money spent here on proper grinder wheels and bearings is money well spent. If skateboard wheels were sufficient, KMG and Bader would use them. The reason they don't is because they aren't sufficient. Same for cheap poly contact wheels. Also, use standard size holes for mounting. If the standard wheel mount shaft is 12-13, use that.
4) Build it for the future. Think about the next things you want to add. If you are planning on going VFD in the future, use a mount for the first motor that will be the same. Put at least two tooling arm slots. Put a mounting post for the VFD and put the ON/OFF switch there now.
5) Features like using an air spring (gas piston) for the idler tension is a really professional upgrade with almost no actual cost difference.
6) Use comfortable star knobs and/or ratchet levers for all adjustment places. These are cheap, and make the build very professional grade.
7) Use sufficient power for your growth. While a 1HP motor will work when you are brand new, 2HP is sometimes barely enough when a pro is hogging steel. If the 2HP is only $50 more, get it now.
8) VFD - using a 3Ph motor and a matching VFD is a good bit of money more, and may need to wait .... but if at all possible, do it in the beginning. The difference in the function and versatility of the grinder will be significant. A professional grinder is VFD in my opinion.
9) Make a half dozen tooling arms in the beginning, and fit them with various platens and wheels as needed. A professional setup will have arms with a flat platen, a large wheel ( 8-10"), a medium wheel 2-4"), and a small wheel fork ( 1/2 - 1"). Things like curved platens and platen chillers can come later, but these four are the work horses of a professional shop.
10) Buying materials that you can get the same thing later on is a good idea. While you may get a good deal on something from the scrap yard, if you can't get more of it later on, it may not be such a good deal.
 
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Thanks for the replies guys.
Stacy thanks for all that info. I planned on going 2hp with VFD and I'm gonna buy my platen, and wheels from either OBM or KMG. I have 2 different designs in my head either A) 2 pieces of 2in square tubing that's. 250 thick welded to 1/2 thick plate that's 10x12in or
B) 1/2 thick plate that's 8x12 bolted to .5x1.5 in steel spacers (kmgesque)
I think either one would work. I'd rather have it welded because I don't have a drill press yet (I know I know) either way they're both going to have a1/4 base plate and similar tracking to the KMG but a longer arm and gas shock instead of spring. I plan to make tool arms out of solid aluminum and use helicoil for the tapped areas.
 
If you are going to a 2hp you will need 220v.

Many and I mean many knifemakers use 1-1.5hp motors just fine. I use a 1.5hp motor and grind everything from Bowies to Tantos just fine.

If you do not have 220 in your shop you will need to run a 1-1.5hp motor on your grinder
 
Well I planned to get 2hp motor and with the kbac 27d it will make it 1.5 hp on 110v unless that would be too much on the motor
 
It's likely to draw far too many amps. The manual for the KBAC's says a 115v wired VFD at 1.5hp the max draw is 22amps! At 208/230 the max draw is 16.7amps. IF grinding hard you will most likely trip that breaker if running 110.
 
Dedicated?

I would just really consider running 220 for your grinder. It's possible you'd be okay, but really it would suck if you tripped that breaker all the time. If you had a dedicated 110v circuit for just your grinder than you'd likely be fine. Even if you were at say 75% load and drawing 15amps you'd likely be tripping the breaker anyway unless its a 20amp, tack on anything on that circuit that draws even just 1amp and you reduce the capability of the grinder even further. Just weigh your options there.
 
if your grinder is built to accept 1 1/2" square tooling arms, arms made from thick wall steel tube will work just fine. the cost difference is a lot. thick wall tube is thick enough to thread. i will echo, run 220vac to your shop, it will give you more options for VFDs and allow you to install a faster kiln when you get around to it.
scott
 
Man I'd love to be able to run 220v BUT I'm renting my house right now so I really don't know if the landlord would allow it. I can ask but I'm just planning on running 110. It's going to take a while to build this thing but I want it to do it once and do it right. I want it to be a complete tank that's also versatile.
Scott yeah I plan on having it accept the 1 1/2 tooling arms. Just don't know if the arm slots should be 1/4 steel tubing with 1/4 plate welded or 1/2 plate with 1/2 steel spacers bolted. Decisions decisions.
 
So as far as the body of the grinder should I use 1/4 square tubing and 1/4 side plates or 1/2 side plates and 1/2x 1.5w steel spacers?
 
Professional grade certainly does not mean bells and whistles. It means long term durability, reliability, and consistent performance. It can be quite simple, but well engineered and constructed.

I don't think it's like the difference between Chevrolet vs Cadillac. I think it's more like Chevrolet vs Freightliner.

edit to add: The ability to tilt the grinder over is nice if that's something you need, but doesn't (in of itself) make it a professional grinder. Even variable speed and large horsepower don't necessarily equate to professional grade. The ability to run at high speed without vibration, the accuracy of its construction and repeatability of its mechanisms, the reliability of its components over a long duration, stable tracking, rigidity and ability to tolerate high grinding pressure without the belt shifting around, long duty cycle without anything overheating after grinding for hours at a stretch <--- these are hallmarks of a professional tool.
 
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Professional grade certainly does not mean bells and whistles. It means long term durability, reliability, and consistent performance. It can be quite simple, but well engineered and constructed.

I don't think it's like the difference between Chevrolet vs Cadillac. I think it's more like Chevrolet vs Freightliner.

edit to add: The ability to tilt the grinder over is nice if that's something you need, but doesn't (in of itself) make it a professional grinder. Even variable speed and large horsepower don't necessarily equate to professional grade. The ability to run at high speed without vibration, the accuracy of its construction and repeatability of its mechanisms, the reliability of its components over a long duration, stable tracking, rigidity and ability to tolerate high grinding pressure without the belt shifting around, long duty cycle without anything overheating after grinding for hours at a stretch <--- these are hallmarks of a professional tool.

Thanks Nathan I appreciate the input. My end goal is to build a grinder that I will never regret. And think "wish I would've bought this instead" I also want it to be a complete tank.
What is your opinion if I should use 1/4 in square tubing wielded to a 1/4in plate or 1/2in plate with 1/2in spacers(like a wilmont TAG but with steel and 1/2 plate instead of 3/16)
 
[video=youtube;IIqdNZaB-Uc]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IIqdNZaB-Uc[/video] Valknut, Here is a video of a Polar Bear Forge grinder that I built about two years ago. It has the coveted second tool arm slot. Please excuse my first attempt at making a short video. The quality of he video is pretty lame but it shows the potential of the grinder. Larry P.S. Here is a equally poor photograph of the Travis Wuertz surface grinding attachment mounted on the grinder. LL
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That's pretty sweet Larry! Still love your tool rests. I've been considering the GIB. UT I don't have any taps and there's a few things I wanna do different. But it is definitely sweet! How are you liking that surface grinder? It is worth the same price as a KMG?
 
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