EP evaluation thread for Knifenut1013

cbwx34

cbwx34

Joined
Dec 27, 2004
Messages
2,270
knifenut1013 said:
Don't buy the hype, edge pro is not worth it.
Click to expand...

cbwx34 said:
Knifenut must have been pressed for time. What he meant to say was, "although I've never used an EdgePro myself, and ignoring the numerous posts from people who have actually purchased and used an Edge Pro, and are very satisfied with it, don't buy the hype, edge pro is not worth it. I'm putting on my flame suit, as I have no actual facts to back my statement, and must simply repel any replies."
Click to expand...

knifenut1013 said:
Not at all, I have seen what a edge pro can do and I'm not impressed. There are also many other reasons I don't like it but I'm not getting into it and derailing this thread.
Click to expand...

Here you go... a thread you can't derail. I'd like to read this evaluation of the EP results you made, and why it doesn't impress you, as well as your "many other reasons".

It's cool if you just don't like the EP, doesn't work for you, whatever. But saying it's 'hype', 'not worth it', etc. implies a bit more.

So, let's have a factual discussion... no hype.

cbw

Edited to add: I have apologized to Knifenut for starting a thread in this manner. This initial post was inappropriate.
See http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showpost.php?p=7801383&postcount=140
 
Last edited:
I am interested and don't even own an edge pro. I have a sharpmaker and am looking at DMT stones and maybe an edgepro. Maybe a bit of overkill- but I like to mess about with stuff. Great board here- I am all ears-Thanks
 
From my own experience owning and using the EP, I didn't think it was worth the effort. Setting up the base, adjusting the rest, putting a stone on the arm, fresh painter's tape, sharpie test for angle, tweak, test, tweak etc until correct. Unable to use the same setting for the same angle on multiple knives due to grind height/angle & blade width. Thin stones, particularly an issue at the coarser end of the range.

It's a personal thing, but I just felt practicing freehand was a better use of time. I can sharpen sitting, standing, with or without furniture, using one or two hands, with no setup or breakdown time. There's a little convexity, but that isn't a bad thing unless you are evaluating specific angles.
 
Hahaha...

I had this response copied and ready to go for my thread, in response to zignal-zero, that asked "why I didn't care for the edge pro"... So in order keep my thread free of the flames I'll post the reponse here :D


zignal_zero said:
hey sorry if i'm getting off the subject of your post, but i gotta ask - what did you not like about the EdgePro? i'm curious because i would like to work towards owning one, but the price tag is high enough where i need to be sure it's what i want.
Click to expand...

No problem, I'm not going to say it was "bad" I just didn't "like" it. First the set up time, it's not hard or anything... just takes more time then I'd like it to. Second, the stones... the course needs to be flattened after every knife. They are also poorly mounted on the plates, so they pop off if the stones gets water logged. (You can even see in the instructions, they tell you how to reglue them for a reason.)

The Apex is plastic, and flexes around when your using it, the table will scratch your blade. Unless you tape your blade and the table... Then we're looking at even MORE set up time :o

The polishing tapes are nice, but only last for 3 or 4 knives. Also had a brand new stone break in half (very thin stones ='s... not strong and do not have a lot of life in the courses even when brand new) in the first 3 strokes putting a huge scratch in my Sebenza :eek: The suction cups work well, but when used in a cookie sheet (to catch the water and steel shavings,) the sheet will slide around. So you have to put a wet towel under the cookie sheet, and again... more set up time.

On to the performance, works great for most straight edged knives, but when you get to a big bellied folder like a regular sebenza, you either have to readjust the angle, or push the handle down or else the bevel on your knife will be very uneven. And, The belly and nose will have a wider angle than the straight area. If you have the skill to know when to lift the handle, you have the skill to freehand ;)

Then we can move to the table, the knife is never clamped to the table, so the knife can slide around... thus getting uneven bevels or digging in to your bevel so hard that it will not polish out untill maybe three or four sharpenings later. The back rest area of the table (where the spine of the blade sits,) needs to be adjusted for larger or smaller knives, also if you not carefull and do not check the angle adjusters often they will loosen up.... more set up time, and maybe slip causing you to scratch your knife. :o

People talk about the learning curve using a EdgePro, and there is one, but I think your time is better spent learning to freehand. Freehanding also lets you pick your stones.
 
I've been using the Edge-Pro, first the Apex and now the Pro for a number of years now. :)

IMHO, it comes VERY close to being the ULTIMATE SHARPENER!

I's ridiculously easy and quick to set up and use.:thumbup:

It's the last sharpener you'll ever need! :p
 
You guys really make me feel special.


The edge pro is a very nice tool but is overly expensive for what you get. I mean really you get a 120 & 320 grit water stone and a ceramic rod with the basic kit all for $350 that's just a amazing deal :rolleyes:

Thin stones..... thin stones are good for shaped blades but if your edge has any defects like a recurve set by the factory sharpening your never going to see it. This is a edge that was previously sharpened by a edge pro, seems as something was missed.

The untouched spot in the middle is the recurve.
Picture1094.jpg



Waterstones WEAR and get thinner soooooooo you change angle every time you use it. Now my question is are all the stones and mounting plates all the same thickness? because this will have huge effects on your sharpening.

I'll be back really do gotta go this time ;)
 
hardheart said:
From my own experience owning and using the EP, I didn't think it was worth the effort. Setting up the base, adjusting the rest, putting a stone on the arm, fresh painter's tape, sharpie test for angle, tweak, test, tweak etc until correct. Unable to use the same setting for the same angle on multiple knives due to grind height/angle & blade width. Thin stones, particularly an issue at the coarser end of the range.

It's a personal thing, but I just felt practicing freehand was a better use of time. I can sharpen sitting, standing, with or without furniture, using one or two hands, with no setup or breakdown time. There's a little convexity, but that isn't a bad thing unless you are evaluating specific angles.
Click to expand...

Yep, I used to like systems until I realized how much faster it is to just whip out a stone, lap a few times, rinse, and be done with it all.
 
Unfair photo, Knifenut!! I call 'foul!' Why not show a photo of an edge done by someone who knows how to sharpen? Heck, even a newbie freehand sharpening can do better than your photo shows! :jerkit:

When I finish a knife using my EdgePro you can use any part of the bevel as your shaving mirror. You don't see any scratches. You don't see any inconsistencies. All you see is a perfectly sharpened and polished edge. And it only takes me less than 20-30 minutes to go from an edge that won't push cut paper to a hair whittling finish.

Yes, it does take me 2-3 minutes to set up. Yes, it can cause scratches on the side of the blade if you care about such things, and that would necessitate the use of some tape. (another 30 seconds) And it takes me 20-30 minutes to bring a folder from dull to hair whittling sharp. How long does it take you to freehand sharpen a folder from dull (can't push cut computer paper) to hair-whittling sharp with a perfectly even, mirror bright finish?

I've never had a problem with stones breaking, and I've had my EdgePro for about 15 years (maybe more...) or falling off the blank. Yes, I have worn out my 120 grit stone. Twice in 15 years. I wore out a RazorEdge stone twice in 5 years when I used that system. You will ultimately wear out any natural stone if you sharpen often, but twice in 15 years isn't such a bad average.

Most knives don't require sharpening more than 3-4 times a year at most if they are maintained between sharpening. There is no doubt in my mind that people here in the forums sharpen far more often that is actually needed simply because we enjoy sharpening! :)

If we don't use our knives for some sort of daily work, using the knife all day long, but instead only make a few cuts on some paper or cardboard each day, we shouldn't need to sharpen that blade more than once every couple of months. Giving the blade a good steeling daily should be more than sufficient to maintain a good working edge. Not a hair whittling edge... But who needs that for work besides a barber? And even he doesn't sharpen his razors every week, nor every month.

Freehand sharpening is a great skill to have. I think anyone who loves knives the way we all do should master this skill. I think many of us have. But as with any skill, once you learn it, there is no need to be restricted to it. When I built my house I used power saws, even though I know how to use a hand saw. I used power nailers even though I know how to use a hammer. And these days I use an EdgePro even though I know how to freehand sharpen. I do so because I get a perfect edge much more quickly than by any other method, for what amounts to less than .05 cents a day expense. (That's .05 of a penny, not five cents.) It gets cheaper every year. :D

Stitchawl
 
To be fair, I should admit there is something I don't like about my EdgePro...

I really don't like the color of the base. I think it should be blue.

I don't think that the water bottle that came with the EdgePro Apex was of good quality. If feels 'cheap.' Although I'm still using that same water bottle 15 years later, it has always felt as if it would break. I suppose I could replace it easily enough, but I haven't bothered.

To date, the EdgePro Apex put a perfect edge on any blade (other than a kris) quickly and easily, faster and more accurately than any other hand operated system on the market today.

Stitchawl
 
Unfair photo, Knifenut!! I call 'foul!' Why not show a photo of an edge done by someone who knows how to sharpen? Heck, even a newbie freehand sharpening can do better than your photo shows! :jerkit:
Click to expand...

The knife shown came to me exceptionally sharp (I'm not saying it doesn't work good) it was finished with a 3k polish tape and was able to split hair. It looked perfect but I found different when sharpened on a wide flat stone. What you see in the picture is the heavy grind marks from my XXC stone and the polished point between is the slight recurve that was started by the factory sharpening. I know this is the case because the twin of this knife had a factory edge with the same problem. Its something that's actually very common with factory grinds and when you use low sharpening angles that are very precise even the slightest flaws like grind width and straightness of the edge stick out like a sore thumb.

I have nothing against the system because I know in the hands of a professional it probably works wonders but I do have something against the hype and the very straight bevels that are made by guided systems. Its another easy button for sharpening a knife and without it those that have not used any other method are usually lost in maintaining their tool. The precise bevel look nice but in use tend to show the most wear and sometimes even small chipping, something I quickly found out with one of my CPM-D2 blades. Nothing is perfect no matter how much we want to believe it is, and no device can take the place of actually learning what sharpening is. It makes me sad more than anything when I see things like this because it follows the trend of "Do it for me" instead of the old "do it myself. Sharpening is becoming a lost art in a fast paced world.
 
How long does it take you to freehand sharpen a folder from dull (can't push cut computer paper) to hair-whittling sharp with a perfectly even, mirror bright finish?
Click to expand...

With my diamond stones freehand about 5-10 minutes with a steel like S30V.
 
knifenut1013 said:
The knife shown came to me exceptionally sharp (I'm not saying it doesn't work good) it was finished with a 3k polish tape and was able to split hair. It looked perfect but I found different when sharpened on a wide flat stone. What you see in the picture is the heavy grind marks from my XXC stone and the polished point between is the slight recurve that was started by the factory sharpening. I know this is the case because the twin of this knife had a factory edge with the same problem. Its something that's actually very common with factory grinds and when you use low sharpening angles that are very precise even the slightest flaws like grind width and straightness of the edge stick out like a sore thumb.

I have nothing against the system because I know in the hands of a professional it probably works wonders but I do have something against the hype and the very straight bevels that are made by guided systems. Its another easy button for sharpening a knife and without it those that have not used any other method are usually lost in maintaining their tool. The precise bevel look nice but in use tend to show the most wear and sometimes even small chipping, something I quickly found out with one of my CPM-D2 blades. Nothing is perfect no matter how much we want to believe it is, and no device can take the place of actually learning what sharpening is. It makes me sad more than anything when I see things like this because it follows the trend of "Do it for me" instead of the old "do it myself. Sharpening is becoming a lost art in a fast paced world.
Click to expand...

I have to say with all due respect that this response has made no sense to me after several readings. I'd like it to make more sense, given your stellar reputation, but I'm still drawing a blank as to what you're saying.
I don't suppose you could paint this in crayon for me, could you?
 
I am not even close to being great with free hand, but I can reprofile on a DMT coarse, then onto spyderco brown and white, finish with Spyderco ultra fine white, and then strop to mirror finish in under 20 minutes. I have to say, I am shaving sharp, and I can sometimes catch hairs, but whittlin them by free hand sharpening is not there yet. I will tell you when I get to yet. Y'all will be the first to know. Actually, So Lo will be the first to know, I hang outside his house and look in his windows at times, so I can just give him a verbal shout out. As far as calling out Knifeknut, I thought that was a little unnecessary. He has some great info to share with anyone who asks. If you do not like his opinion about Edge Pro, put him on ignore, and move on. However, you will miss out on good info. as well. Just my 2 cents. I can buy some great stones with 300 or so. My set up was about 200, and that fat ultra fine was 100. I cut a ramp out of 4x4 wood to make a 12 degree incline, so I hold my knives horizontal, and lift the handle to follow the belly curve. Recurve requires some free hand, but helps one grow some hair, if ya know what I mean.
 
MagenDavid

I don't suppose you could paint this in crayon for me, could you?
Click to expand...

Not that KK can't defend himself, but in crayon, I think he means that the system is overpriced for what you get and people want easy results with such mechanical systems - having given themselves over to a "fast food" mentality.
 
cziv said:
MagenDavid



Not that KK can't defend himself, but in crayon, I think he means that the system is overpriced for what you get and people want easy results with such mechanical systems - having given themselves over to a "fast food" mentality.
Click to expand...

I've been wondering about this. I remember some time back, a guy suggesting that the Sharpmaker is a great tool for learning the basics of freehand and understanding the mechanics. I figured the Edge Pro was the same.
I never learned on such apparatus...es. I Nazi once taught me in passing how to maintain an edge angle when sharpening.
This has been absolutely fantastic in maintaining factory edges, and as such my pocket knives are much sharper than those of my peers, but I'm relatively uneducated about things like re-beveling. The Edge Pro seemed like a good option for learning the basics of something like that.
What method would you (and knifenut) recommend for learning to rebevel?
 
After some thought I almost regret even posting in this thread. Its almost a attempt to make others look at me as a fool because I had something negative to say about the beloved EP. If you truly want my opinion to possibly advance your sharpening knowledge that's one thing but I'm not getting dragged through the mudd because so many think the EP is the be all end all. For every one of me there is 20 die hard EP fans that will fight me to the death.

If you have true interest email me, I will not be posting in this thread made to make me look bad any longer.
 
MG, cziv put it in perfect perspective.

carp, DMT aligner clamp.

cziv, send me a email.

ok that is all.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top