Epoxy Problems Again

Michael J. Spangler

Michael J. Spangler

Joined
Oct 8, 2003
Messages
2,181
no trouble for a while, untill now.
just the other day i put handles on a nice knife using pop's hidden handle fasteners. but i didn't tighten one side enough (only the second time using these fasteners) so i had to remove the handle and start again. man that handle was glued on there tight!!! could barely get the thing off even after the screws were ground off, so i put on new handles same method, and after i finished the knife it sat for a few days and the handles lifted off the steel on the front portion of the handle, just enough to notice.
man this sucks. back to it, hope it works out this time :mad:
 
Howdy There.....!
Just saw your post and I use Pop's bolts all the time and have great sucess with them. What type of handle material are you attaching? I have seen some types of horn slab handles curl up at the ends if it gets too hot. One thing that I do with those bolts is test fit them to the blade and handle materials before gluing. Sorry to hear that you have had bad luck with the handle, I really hate to cut hadles off of a blade. Good luck....!

Later "Possum"
 
hey guys i'm using devcon 2 ton epoxy... the slow cure stuff.
what do you guys think about using acra glass?? i hear that stuff has a way better hold strength than most epoxy, i can pick it up in small enough quantities at a local gun shop too.
i'm using stailized maple burl. sand flat with a 4X36
then i fit the handles, test fit everything, and glue it up. i always let it cure for a long time too. atleast 12 hours even though it sayd 8 is enough time for full bond strength.
 
Use Marine Tex industrial epoxy....baddest stuff in town...get it at most marine supply dealers....
 
I have had the slow cure 2 part Devcon shift on me as it was drying. I have had it force the tang up on a hidden tang knife with the blade up. I went back to the 5 min.quick set. Fred
 
Steve Sando and Tracy Mickley did extensive test with adhesives commonly used in knifemaking. The results were interesting. Devcon was tested.

Do a search on "Glue Wars".
 
My experience is that epoxy of any type tryed by me will NOT bond handle material to steel. I use the word 'bond'. It will NOT in my opinion. Other methods of insurance are necessary. The bolts or screws, tang feedthrough holes and roughed out scale backs may be essential in providing a good lock. For our making I view the use of epoxy more as a locking compound and sealant than I do a bonding agent.

RL
 
please guys read this thredd
http://www.knifenetwork.com/forum/showthread.php?t=27463

it is the thredd that Chuck is talking about("Testing for the ultimate adhesive" ). it will take you some time but its well worth it if you make knives using any type epoxy/adhesive.
for those who dont have the time i think if you go to the last or second to page of the thredd you can find the finnal results.

read it!
if you feel you are secure with your chosen epoxy/adhesive think again!! :eek:



...justin
 
Actually, no. The threads are on BFC, in this Forum. Search for "glue wars".
That will get you there... :D
 
Hope you don't take this wrong, but the first thing that entered my mind is that your handle slabs and/or tang are not FLAT

You need to make sure they're all dead flat, or you'll have problems.

After that, I highly recommend Acra Glass. I've used most all other options, and always have had the best results with AG.

I got the BIG BOTTLES from Chuck :D

-Nick-
http://www.wheelerknives.com
 
Hi Michael
I had the same problem using devcon epoxy...until I realized it wasn't the epoxy. It was me. I started cleaning the tang and the handle material with rubbing alcohal and then scratching them both up with 40 grit sandpaper (watch the ricasso though...learned that the hard way). Blow the handle slab off with an air hose and glue up. I found not cleaning properly to be the biggest factor. That is unless your scales are not flat or your tang has warped slightly during heat treat. All have happened to me at some point. But I can tell you that unless you overheat your work after glueing it up, it shouldn't happen again if you clean and scratch first. I honestly didn't think that the scratching would make that much difference because the scratches really are quite shallow but it turns out that's all it takes to have better adherence. I have however heard that acraglass is much better though to use though. Haven't tried it yet but it's on the list. Good luck.

Mike Coughlin
 
I've used Pop's epoxy. It does a good job when I do my part...degreased, flat, etc, but agree pretty much with Roger about what you can expect from epoxy. One problem I had early on with handle bolts was over tightening. If the handle material used can be compressed, over tightening will raise the ends of the handle material by expanding the material in the bottom of the holes no matter which glue used.
 
The bolts that are being discussed are often called Corby bolts. They differ from loveless bolts (two nuts with holes tapped all the way through and a piece of all thread) by having a male and female piece. They need to be cut to length or you will run into the above problems. A "dry" run is recommended until you have experience with them. Care must be taken to countersink them low enough that you do not get into the threaded center part of the bolt.

I agree with Nick that it sounds like your handle/tang areas are not flat.

Surface prep is the key to getting the most out of ANY epoxy. Your surface prep should also happen immediately before assembly! If you wait just a few hours oxidation has started and you will not get as good of a bond in my experience.

Tom
 
gee i forgot all about this thread. ok so i'll walk you through my process. i hand sand the blade then tape off the blade and run my KMG nice and slow with a 36 grit belt to scratch up the tang. then i flatten out some slabs on a 4x36 belt sander with nice even light pressure check to see if they're flat. then i line everything up and drill holes, i profile the handle material to cut down on the ammount of time spent on the grinder, then i shape and polish the front of the handle material. test fit everyting together. pull it apart and wipe everything down with acetone on a cotton ball. then i mix my epoxy, and clean everything with acetone again. smear the epoxy on everything run the bolts through, tighten then down just a little, and i usually put a little spring clamp on towards the front of the handle material.
could the spring clamp be overkill? squishing out all the epoxy?
though last time i removed the handle materials i remember seeing epoxy in there, stuff just didn't grab like the did on the rest of the handle
maybe i'll try that marine tex stuff untill i can get some acraglass
 
Something I've seen Tom do (and I do it too) is to squeeze the handle moderately with a pair of pliers in several places...watching the tang to make sure it seals all the way around. I end up doing probably only 3-4 squeezes and usually in the middle (not around the edges).

Leaving it clamped is, IMHO, overkill. I used to go to all lengths with clamps, etc. But now I only use clamps if the assembly cannot stand up on its own, or if I'm worried about gravity having an effect on the glue-up. Since I use Acraglas, I don't have to worry about it running. I should add that I do often use rubber bands (cheap and easy) to hold things together if needed, until the epoxy is fully cured.

I have had (as you allude) several experiences where clamping squeezed out all the epoxy or worse, raised an area and created a small gap.


The 4x36 belt sander (if it's anything like the ones I've used) probably isn't getting your slabs flat. You need a disc sander. Even a 5" one is better than the 4x36.
 
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