Erg. My turn to be miffed at freehanding.

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Jun 6, 2012
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So my diamond stones came in. Along with the stones came a Svord peasant knife which I decide to sharpen. I set the bevel on with Lansky and set to work. I thought it went rather well with through coarse and medium stones. When I went to the fine stone I had problems because I was trying to do only edge leading strokes and let the polished bevel get it too steep. So realinged the bevel with the Lansky and went to work again. It seemed like my technique was better the second time. However I got careless because I have been working in the yard all day. So I sit here with an other polished bevel is too steep knife and am somewhat frustrated. There were two problems: First, I did not eliminate enough of the burr before moving to the next stone. Which led to having to use more pressure trying to polish the bevel and eliminate the burr (which I could not). To be fair, the belly was the main trouble spot.

In the big picture this means nothing because I am going to continue to learn to freehand. It was just frustrating at the time.
 
Why set the bevel with a guided-rod system? The best practice for freehand sharpening is doing everything freehand, from reprofiling all the way to finishing.
 
Why set the bevel with a guided-rod system? The best practice for freehand sharpening is doing everything freehand, from reprofiling all the way to finishing.

Yup. As you get used to setting the bevel by hand, all the other steps will feel natural and you'll just follow the same motion you've been doing all along.
 
Using anything but very light pressure is a bad idea and will cause problematic burrs.

Don't worry about using only edge leading strokes. The only time the stroke matters is at the final stages when an edge trailing stroke (stropping) should be used on the stones. Dragging the edge is less abrasive on the apex.

Perhaps watch a few of Murray Carter's sharpening videos and see how simple sharpening can be. Don't overthink it.
Have fun and good luck.
 
I had done two kitchen knives for my mom about a week ago and they both got very sharp. One could pop hair and the other would shave.

My problem is I tend to increase the angle when I start using the finer stones.
 
OK will do.

Can you guys recommend some more sharpening videos? I have exhausted most of Mr. Carter's videos on Youtube.

Jon at JKI
http://www.youtube.com/user/JKnifeImports/videos

Maksim at JNS
http://www.youtube.com/user/maxim20008/videos

Hirano-San
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rwy5hT0nCCQ
Hirano-san has what I think is ideal knife sharpening form.
Watch the angle at his elbows at around 11:00.
Also notice how often he checks his work.

Thanks for the question and good luck.
 
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I find knifenut's vids to be the best. He does a lot of explaining of technique and equipment in his videos, and always does a full sharpening. Check out his YouTube channel: MrEdgy81
 
I had done two kitchen knives for my mom about a week ago and they both got very sharp. One could pop hair and the other would shave.

My problem is I tend to increase the angle when I start using the finer stones.

I had issues with this as well, and I believe many others do too. As you go up in polish, feedback tends to diminish. Also, the ability of a bevel to appear flat is a function of the size of abrasive doing the work. Imagine it - some passes are a bit "into" the edge, the abrasive bites deep into the apex and by the time it exits at the shoulder its very shallow. Other passes are shallow at the apex and bite deep as they exit the shoulder. They all intersect at some point in the middle of the bevel, optically the bevel looks flat, or nearly so. There is very little felt feedback to differentiate the two paths. When you go to a finer grit, if you don't pay close attention to where you're grinding you won't be able to correct for this with the smaller abrasive and the bevel will appear quite convexed even if mechanically your movements had the same margin of error as far as angle control. Add to that the reduced feedback and the tendency is to 'feel' for the apex, rounding the edge even further = polished edge that can just shave arm hair and maybe facial hair but otherwise performs very poorly and dulls fast. When you make the jump to a polishing stage, stop often and observe what's happening. Let the observation guide your mechanics, don't just proceed and observe the effects. Always believe your eyes.

Another trick is to recalibrate you feedback loop by deliberately dropping the spine and grinding the shoulder very lightly for a pass or two. Elevate just until you feel that sensation trail off and continue with observation and patience. If you cannot accurately feel the apex on the stone, you can at least feel when its absolutely not on the stone, hopefully preventing you from broadening the edge. This becomes critical when removing the burr as it usually involves many single passes on the stone = easy to loose the good angle and "feel" for the apex.

As others have mentioned, you can and will learn a lot of good freehand control by setting the bevel freehand as well. "Free"(hand) yourself from that guided system!
 
It was something that I saw mentioned in another thread. I won't be doing it in the future.

Lots of videos to watch! WOOT!

I'm going to suggest something that likely runs counter to much of the other commentary here. It is just a suggestion, so take it for what you think it'll be worth to you.

One very GOOD reason I see, for setting a bevel with a guided system, is that it will give you the best, flattest and purest foundation on which to practice your freehand from that point forward. We've all wished that manufacturers would consistently put good, reasonably acute & symmetrical edge grinds on all blades. Why do we wish for that? A big reason is, it's MUCH easier to maintain by hand from the start, because well-executed bevels are much easier to feel and control on the hones. Attempting to acquire the 'feel' for a flat bevel on the stones is a lousy & frustrating process when the existing bevels are poorly executed, asymmetrical or unbalanced, or round/blunt from the get-go.

Pick ONE knife, and set the bevels with your guided setup. Choose a knife in a relatively easy-to-deal-with steel, that won't give you too many issues with setup difficulties in the clamp, and that you think will perform well with a 30° inclusive edge (or less). That'll give you some decently wide bevels to 'feel' more easily when practicing your freehand technique. Issues with the 'feel' changing or diminishing at higher grit/polish levels will be lessened if the bevels you're working on are relatively wide and therefore stable and more easily felt. This is the biggest benefit, by far, for using a guided setup to establish new bevels on an edge. Maintenance by freehand technique is much, much easier after that.

You don't have to mess with running through a full grit sequence either, using the guide. Just set the foundation with the coarse stone and the guide, and then do everything beyond that with your freehand technique. An added plus for doing it this way: you'll be better able to feel the grit change with each step, as you move up in the sequence. When stepping up in grit, the bevels initially feel a bit 'sticky' on the hone, until the coarser scratches have been replaced by the next-finer scratches. Feels much smoother, even slick, buttery or glassy, when that transition comes. I've often thought it similar to walking on concrete with isolated icy patches; you'll immediately feel the difference as you step from the dry concrete onto the ice. You'll be amazed at how much easier it is to train your hands to it, and the 'feel' aspect will come with repetition (guaranteed).


David
 
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Been working on a Gerber Ripstop I (or maybe it is a II) that I got as a gift years ago. I am fighting a tenacious burr. I reduce the burr and go edge trailing in prep for the next stone. As soon as go edge trailing on the blade a giant burr appears. I have played with this burr on my two finest stones but it doesn't matter what I do. I can not remove the burr to my satisfaction. EDIT: To clarify, I can't really remove the burr. That is what I am trying to say.

Also, still going a little obtuse but not nearly as bad as before. Just a little.
 
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I'm not trying to disagree with Nullity, I just want to share what works for me. Using edge leading for the last 5-10 strokes prior to the next grit progression works for me. I used to have similar problems with the burr, and in fact my knives acted like they were getting sharper as they cut, just because they were breaking the burr away. Using edge leading strokes works for me, YMMV.
 
Been working on a Gerber Ripstop I (or maybe it is a II) that I got as a gift years ago. I am fighting a tenacious burr. I reduce the burr and go edge trailing in prep for the next stone. As soon as go edge trailing on the blade a giant burr appears. I have played with this burr on my two finest stones but it doesn't matter what I do. I can not remove the burr to my satisfaction. EDIT: To clarify, I can't really remove the burr. That is what I am trying to say.

Also, still going a little obtuse but not nearly as bad as before. Just a little.

You'll need to really back off with the pressure. Whether edge-leading or edge-trailing, pressure is what will create most of the burrs, and heavy pressure just makes them bigger. The combination of diamond and relatively ductile stainless steel (440A?) adds to the issue as well. If the burr is quite large or stiff now, I'd go feather-light with pressure and thin the burr to a point where it more easily folds over. Then focus on the side that it folds toward, and use very, very light edge-leading strokes to file it off. Ideally, the thinner burr should fold backward over the bevel you're working on, where it can more easily be filed away (edge-leading). Again, make sure pressure is extremely light while doing this, and keep closely inspecting the edge and checking cutting performance after every 1-3 passes, so you're not creating a new burr in the wake of the old one. Do all of this with your finest hone.

David
 
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Been working on a Gerber Ripstop I (or maybe it is a II) that I got as a gift years ago. I am fighting a tenacious burr. I reduce the burr and go edge trailing in prep for the next stone. As soon as go edge trailing on the blade a giant burr appears. I have played with this burr on my two finest stones but it doesn't matter what I do. I can not remove the burr to my satisfaction. EDIT: To clarify, I can't really remove the burr. That is what I am trying to say.

Also, still going a little obtuse but not nearly as bad as before. Just a little.
Try edge leading strokes, edge trailing strokes tend to increase burr formation due to the inconsistency of the human hand.
 
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