Ernie, please read.

Joined
Jan 14, 2003
Messages
1,638
Mr. Emerson, i see youve been doing a lot of new models.... with framelocks and lots of cool stuff.

There are a lot of people on these forums who have noticed that the quality control of emerson knives isnt up to par with many other companies, have there been changes in the factory to help this?

i also found that your company---> the relations people arent very friendly, ive fired off some emails, and still have no replies.

As to the chisel grind, are you ever going to make a knife with a full v grind? other than the HK model 10. I find that would boost sales.

Also, in any knives, will you have the blade heat treated to a better level? i know that you like it so people can field sharpen easily, but really, what a LOT of people want is edge holding abilities.

-aaron
 
I'm not Mr. Emerson, but I think that I'll give this a go.....

=)

With most of my adult life being dedicated toward academic professional training, researching my purchases has become habit for me. Any time I hop onto a new Forum/d-board, the "search" function is one of my first stops, and I can literally spend hours per day --spanning into weeks -- reading about my potential purchases.

This was much the same when I recently decided to look into purchasing an Emerson and a Benchmade to add to my modest rotation of daily users.

Searching these Forums here and that of KnifeForums.com, I, too, noticed the same issues as you did regarding the Emerson production line -- but I also saw similar quality-control complaints with Benchmade as well; and other companies, such as my beloved Spyderco, were not immune to these complaints, either. Even full-custom makers like the Strider guys are not free of such complaints.

Believe me, for this purchase, it got to the point where I e-mailed several of my international friends from other hobbies -- ones I knew how also loved blades -- to scope out the Benchmade Q/C situation, to hear it first hand from people I "knew."

As a fellow blade enthusiast, I'm sure that this has not escaped your careful eyes.

But then again, I implore you, aaron, to take the time to do on-line searches for reviews/opinions of other high-end products and services. Have a look at Mercedes and BMW -- or how about The Four Seasons and The Ritz Carlton. Are their on-line reviews spotlessly positive? or are you now thinking twice about either buying one of these fine automobiles or staying a night in these world renowned hotels?

Along these same lines, have a look at CandlePower Forums. CPF is a congreation place for flashlight enthusiasts. Being a blade enthusiast, you might be familiar with the SureFire name. These are considered to be among the top illumination tools in the industry, and yet, search CPF, and you'll find posts similar to those found here complaining of everything from supposed product quality defects to customer-service unpleasantness. After reading those posts, I'd daresay that you'll never want to buy a SureFire product ever again -- and yes, I've seen many newbies un-necessarily turned off by or turn away from these excellent illumination tools by such just threads.

The Internet has become a place for the vocal minority to air their greviances, no matter how small and trivial or how serious or dire. At the same time, it has also become the playground of staunch "fan-groups" whose dedication to any one marque may make their behavior often reflect blind ignorance to facts or outright violent outbursts to detractors. The atmosphere is polarized to the extremes -- you'll rarely find many posts by someone who is "just" satisfied with the product. Look at the names/handles of those posting on either side of the argument, and you'll find many who can literally fit a "team roster" without even having to do IP confirmations for any trolls.

The serial number on my 2003 production Waved, Black-T coated Commander BTS is in the 3000 range. I know that there are complaints here from those who've sampled multiple copies but have found the liner top be insufficient; but I also know of many Suspects who've had nothing but good things to gush about their production, semi-custom, or custom Commanders. Yet, even if both of these total to one hundred individual samples -- and I'm being generous here -- what of the other 2900?

All that I can say is that my Commander was very sharp out-of-the-box. Its blade was centered, the finish is no worse than any of my other factory or custom/semi-custom blades from any other marque/maker. The liner engaged positively and passed what I would deem to be a reasonable spine-whack test by myself, and I cannot get the liner to slip no matter how hard I squeeze the scales (and I'm a trained martial artist of a school which has a strong foundation in grappling, so my grip strength, if not above-average, is certainly no worse than average). The blade slides out nicely using the thumb disc -- the action, while not as frictionless as my Spyderco Viele (often reviewed to be the smoothest full-production manual folder), is still quite smooth, and the reprofiled Wave catches everything from my $40 Eddie Bauer jeans to my $400 Zileri slacks and fully deploys and locks the blade open.

Do I trust the blade to be a crowbar? No -- but then again, I wouldn't ask that of any of my folders regarding og their locking mechanism; and even for my fixed Strider BT tanto, a full 1/4-inch of Bos S30V, that's still mistreating a blade. Would I trust my Commander to be a last-ditch self defense slasher and to even deliver a final stab to the subclavian/aortic arch? I don't think that any decent folder, again regardless of locking mechanism, wouldn't be able to do that unless I hit bone by mistake.

In terms of customer service, I ordered a simple "Skull" clip from their on-line store, and they even had the courtesy to e-mail me -- which I rarely get in return, I shop frequently and internationally on-line for a variety of both production and custom products) -- to report a backorder on even just this small, $12 component.

But did I -- a satisfied customer -- post before today?

No, I didn't.

And I think that the other 2900 owners of the sister copies of my 2003 Commander (or even just 1,000 of them, assuming that a generous 2/3 of all those produced are still sitting with retailer/re-seller stock) may just be my type of "moderate" but fully satisfied customers who either have not expressed their satisfaction, or are not members of these on-line communities such as BladeForums.

I think that in our own striving to make sure that what we've purchased or are going to purcg=hase the best quality "X" for our money, we have become -- as is our human nature -- too sensitive to the cautionary tales or warnings, no matter their quantity, quality, or source...so much so that we have lost sight of the big picture.

It's like that one red light we always hit on the way home from work or the supermarket -- it becomes our nemesis, we notice it and fume about it when we're sitting in traffic because of it, but when we cruise through on green, it doesn't even register.

Dig deep enough, you'll find trash on all the brands -- I think that Emerson makes some fine production folders.

=)

Allen
aka DumboRAT
 
ok allen, im trying to keep things here simple.

I know that other companies have some problems too, but not all companies make claims that are not met.

1. Number one hard use knife?
2. other companies that do have quality conrtrol problems sure dont have prices remotely expensive as emerson.

I, and many others believe we are paying lots for name, some goofy showmanship, and a half assed knife.
Im also wandering why ernie doesnt post on these forums, because theres a lot of talking on these forums about his knives, and its not all good.
 
Aaron :
It seems as though you already have made your mind up regarding Emerson's. That's fine and you are entitled to that. However in my opinion I do not feel that there is anything really wrong with Emersons . I hear too many people complain about lockup , edge holding, etc. Funny though I have allot of friends who have allot of Emersons knives , they do not report the same problems.

Now I am not a fan of Spyderco's at all , has nothing to do with quality , they just don't appeal to me so I don't buy them .

Prices too high ? I don't think so , though if you are paying retail you are shopping in the wrong place .

I prefer and actually have grown to love the chisel edge grind. It isn't for everyone. I wouldn't mind having a Commander with a conventional V grind myself , though I doubt it will happen .

I am not speaking for Ernie , he can do that himself.

I like my Emersons and will continue to buy , collect and modify them for many years.

In this day and age too much is relayed VIA email. How about picking up a phone and actually calling them and asking to speak with someone about your complaints ?
 
It actually looks like emerson is taking some of the right steps with the new frame lock, maybe if its successful we will see more. There are so many things are done right on emersons that it is a shame that the mechanicals aren't quite up to the level of the rest of the knife.
 
45 guy, i know you love your emersons, and i see your always "trickin them out" but i wonder why, for such prices, ernie cant put a ti backspacer in himself, why cant he do a full grind?
 
Well you got me there... the backspacer leaves ALLOT to be desired.
If I could change anything on Production Emersons it would be the backspacer and the phillips head screws. Though I replace mine with Torx or allen head , only $.65 for screws but I would like to see them come with them.

Heck for that matter I can't see why customs from any maker dont come with a backspacer out of something other than G10 .

It is not that he can't do a full grind , it seems like the chisel grind is just an Emerson thing. It took me a long time to buy my first Emerson just because of the chisel grind.... however after using mine allot , a proper sharpened chisel edge is just as good as any other edge.

Besides it only takes half as long to re sharpen it ;)
 
i liked how the knives are easy to take apart :D

no, not a chisel grind kinda dude, and im right handed, so for me the grind was on the wrong side... my other thoughts still stand...

his knives are so pricey, and yet he cuts soo many corners.
 
Just how many Emersons do you own?
I own a few of the customs and love em. If you feel they are too expensive or not worth it, just buy somebody else's. The chisel grind was never meant to be for every application, for some jobs there are better tools.
For the record, every email and phone call I've made to EKI has been answered.

It is obvious that you dont like their knives. Hey, free country. Why not just move on? I'm sure Ernie appreciates your concern about boosting his sales but I'm pretty sure his sales are booming.
 
were not talking about his customs lifter
were talking about the mass produced models
 
At last count I own 25 Emerson production knives. I have only had minor problems with 2, one I fixed on my own, the other went back to the factory for a liner adjustment and I got it back with a personal letter from Ernest, himself. When's the last time the CEO of a cutlery company took time to write you a letter for simple warranty work?

If the backspacers were titanium, you could add at least another $30 to the cost. Insert that at the production level and you're looking at a price increase of anywhere from $45 to $70 by the time it hits your front door.

Emerson knives are made for a very specific target audience: Military and LEO's. I know when I was a Marine, the pay wasn't all that good. I remember saving up over a period of a few months to buy a particular piece of gear. I remember someone thinking I was nuts for buying a knife for more than "$35 at the PX". I also know that not every LEO can go out and drop a week's pay on a knife, most have bills, mortgages, etc to pay like the rest of us and their departments don't issue a knife to them so they must supply their own.

Aside from the backspacer, what corners are being cut? The steel is good and holds an edge and can easily be resharpened. The knives can be easily disassembled and put back together without expensive tools. Liners are titanium. Handles are G10. The Wave feature alone makes it the fastest folding knife in the world from the draw to deployment. Also a small cottage industry in producing titanium backspacers has been popping up, so if you feel the need for a better spacer you can buy one and replace it yourself...how American is that?!?

I don't find his knives expensive. Maybe a little higher than Spyderco, Kershaw, SOG, CS, MT, or BM, but how many of those companies do all their work in the US? How many of them do business out of the State of California? How many of them make their knives in such a way that the end user can take them apart, service them, customize them, etc? And then stand behind the warranty if something goes wrong?

If you don't like his knives, buy something else. If you want the Emerson name and can't afford one of the Made in USA models, there is also the "HARDWEAR" line made in Japan and priced accordingly.
 
Originally posted by aaron_simkovich
I, and many others believe we are paying lots for name, some goofy showmanship, and a half assed knife.

I am not trying to start a flame here, aaron....but your mind seems to already have been made up before you posted your questions.

=(

Allen
aka DumboRAT
 
Originally posted by aaron_simkovich
I, and many others believe we are paying lots for name, some goofy showmanship, and a half assed knife.

Paying for name? Of course you are. Just as people pay for other names everyday. The fit and finish of a Geno Denning knife is much better than Loveless knives. Yet Loveless's routinely sell in the $1800-3000 range while Dennings go for $200-600.Same goes for Morans,Hartsfelds and more. I'm not saying that Emersons,Loveless's,Morans,etc are all on the same level, that's not for me to decide, I'm just showing examples of paying for names. If you want a certain name, buy it, if not, dont. Simple enough.

Goofy showmanship??? Over the line. The man knows his stuff. I am not an Emerson worshipper like some, but I give credit where it is due. He has been teaching classes to civilians,LEO's and military for a long time, ask the people who have attended his classes if it's goofy showmanship. I've spoken to bodyguards,cops,a SEAL, a couple of Rangers,and to a man they've all said the man knows his stuff. Maybe you'd like to step into a ring with him?

Goofy showmanship? Half assed knife? You've crossed over the line to trolldom.

If the knives dont appeal to you, if the chisel grind is not for you, why not just move on? Dont insult people from behind your keyboard commando station.
 
Originally posted by DumboRAT
I am not trying to start a flame here, aaron....but your mind seems to already have been made up before you posted your questions.

=(

Allen
aka DumboRAT

Indeed he has already made up his mind... though at 16 all I can remember having my mind made up about was that redheaded women were hott ! :D
 
Originally posted by the45guy
Indeed he has already made up his mind... though at 16 all I can remember having my mind made up about was that redheaded women were hott ! :D

That's pretty smart for a 16 year old.

I'd agree with that!

;)

-j
 
well ive been told not to argue with the suspects, they cant learn anythings,and get all moody.....

goofy showmanship: the number one hard use knife bit gets me laughin, the knife like a chisel bit, yeah right.

i know im not being supported here, but then again, people who dont like emersons usually wouldnt post in the emerson forum :O

go look at the review threads people, theres one threrad, how tough are they in reality? that says what im thinkin.

Im not going to respond to this thread anymore because ive screwed up, and like lifter said, he and i are both crossing the trolling line, so im leaving it as this.

Seeya.
 
Originally posted by aaron_simkovich


Im not going to respond to this thread anymore because ive screwed up, and like lifter said, he and i are both crossing the trolling line, so im leaving it as this.

Seeya.

Originally posted by lifter4Him
Goofy showmanship? Half assed knife? You've crossed over the line to trolldom.

No it's as Lifter said... You've crossed over. Didn't see Dave mention anything about him trolling . :rolleyes:

Even Suspects learn new things daily.... like your opinion don't count for much in my eyes.
 
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