Esee 5 vs Ontario Rat 5?

J

JDX

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Is there any reason I should buy the esee over the ontario? The knife will be used for general bushcraft. But the esee retails for about $100-$115 and the ontario is around $75. Any info would be appreciated. Thanks
 
ESEE's warranty is better, pretty much no questions asked. They have their heat treat on their 1095 down really well so the knife will perform a little better. The Ontario version isn't necessarily "bad", but the ESEE will be a step above.
 
JDX said:
Is there any reason I should buy the esee over the ontario? The knife will be used for general bushcraft. But the esee retails for about $100-$115 and the ontario is around $75. Any info would be appreciated. Thanks
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Be careful how you compare. The ESEE 5 that you are seeing in that price range has no sheath. Add their sheath to it and you are around $155, in some cases more.

The Ontario comes with a perfectly serviceable sheath (I actually own one of the RAT5 knives) for less than $75 delivered.

Ontario stepped up their game a few years ago, as well as their bringing up their fit and finish. (Personally, I think it was in response to the ESEE line of knives, but that has been debated to death on this forum!) My personal experience is that Ontario has also bumped up their game on warranty issues as well. Both knives are quite serviceable, but one is less than half the price of the other.

To me, the difference is the fit and finish. All the ESEE knives I have handled have been very well fitted together and feel great in the hand. They were fairly sharp, but needed and edge tune up. The Ontarios fitting can be just a bit off, and I mean in the few thousandths range. Not much, and not all of them. The finish is great on the Ontario, and Ontario has their coatings down solid having provided edged tools to the military for years, I have read different opinions on the quality if the coating on the ESEEs. My Ontario came with a comparable edge to the ESEE, but with a bit thinner cutting edge it was a much better all around cutter, which is really important if you are going to use it as a bushcraft or as an occasional hunting knife.

My Ontario holds an edge very well. I have used it for light chopping, a bunch of cutting, a little bushcraft work, and other camp chores. When dull, it is a breeze to touch up, too. The overall handle design is a bit more blocky than the ESEEs, but a piece of sandpaper and a small rasp will get allow you to alter the handles to a perfect fit in your hand. You can't feel bad about modifying a $75 knife!

Personally, for half the price, I would buy the Ontario. The difference in field performance to me is pretty dang small, with each doing one thing or another better than the other. I like having the sheath come with the knife, and I always felt that as an inexpensive knife I had no need to spare it in any way, baby it, or give it any special care. I like the thinner edge on the Ontario that makes it a better cutter for me, and the fact I can slip and small stone in the sheath (and other stuff) to sharpen in the field as needed. And again, I really like the fact I could buy the Ontario and still have enough money to buy other gear, or even try other styles and sizes of this kind of knife from other makers and still be under the price of the sheathed ESEE 5.

Robert
 
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Don't forget...you can buy RAT knives in D2 also! Item # 8639 and 8640 (RAT 5)
 
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Like was posted above, your price is off on the Esee. Think $150. Almost everything will be better on the Esee. Warranty, heat treat, fit/finish, and sheath. The sheath especially will be much better. The Esee 5 sheath is one of the best that comes from the factory. The two blades are different in thickness as well. So if you truly want that .25" tank of a knife you should get the 5 or give the BK 2 a look. If it were my money I would get the Esee 5, which I have!
 
I have both. They are pretty close, but I would give a slight edge to the ESEE being a little better. I would not say that either is a great deal better than the other. They are both really good knives.
 
I just ordered the ESEE 5 last night with kydex sheath, I personally like the blade design better on the ESEE. I also like the fact that there are a lot more accessory items available for the ESEE. Pretty cool how the ESEE is also a purpose built knife, Designed By Military SERE Instructors As A Hard-Use Downed Pilot’s Survival Knife. It's cool how ESEE is a real world training facility where there knives are put to test in the field on a regular basis by pros, not just a knife maker in the market. The E5 also has the saber cut blade since it is a heavier, thicker blade. I just like overly built knives that are proven and can take a serious pounding if need be.
 
I would go with the thinner blade stock. I find .25" isn't as functional for overall purposes, good if your chopping and batoning though.
 
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1Hiker2 said:
I would go with the thinner blade stock. I find .25" isn't as functional for overall purposes, good if your chopping and batoning though.
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I agree that the thinner blade stock will be better for cutting but in that case I would go for another in the Esee line rather than Ontario.
 
midnight flyer said:
Be careful how you compare. The ESEE 5 that you are seeing in that price range has no sheath. Add their sheath to it and you are around $155, in some cases more.

The Ontario comes with a perfectly serviceable sheath (I actually own one of the RAT5 knives) for less than $75 delivered.

Ontario stepped up their game a few years ago, as well as their bringing up their fit and finish. (Personally, I think it was in response to the ESEE line of knives, but that has been debated to death on this forum!) My personal experience is that Ontario has also bumped up their game on warranty issues as well. Both knives are quite serviceable, but one is less than half the price of the other.

To me, the difference is the fit and finish. All the ESEE knives I have handled have been very well fitted together and feel great in the hand. They were fairly sharp, but needed and edge tune up. The Ontarios fitting can be just a bit off, and I mean in the few thousandths range. Not much, and not all of them. The finish is great on the Ontario, and Ontario has their coatings down solid having provided edged tools to the military for years, I have read different opinions on the quality if the coating on the ESEEs. My Ontario came with a comparable edge to the ESEE, but with a bit thinner cutting edge it was a much better all around cutter, which is really important if you are going to use it as a bushcraft or as an occasional hunting knife.

My Ontario holds an edge very well. I have used it for light chopping, a bunch of cutting, a little bushcraft work, and other camp chores. When dull, it is a breeze to touch up, too. The overall handle design is a bit more blocky than the ESEEs, but a piece of sandpaper and a small rasp will get allow you to alter the handles to a perfect fit in your hand. You can't feel bad about modifying a $75 knife!

Personally, for half the price, I would buy the Ontario. The difference in field performance to me is pretty dang small, with each doing one thing or another better than the other. I like having the sheath come with the knife, and I always felt that as an inexpensive knife I had no need to spare it in any way, baby it, or give it any special care. I like the thinner edge on the Ontario that makes it a better cutter for me, and the fact I can slip and small stone in the sheath (and other stuff) to sharpen in the field as needed. And again, I really like the fact I could buy the Ontario and still have enough money to buy other gear, or even try other styles and sizes of this kind of knife from other makers and still be under the price of the sheathed ESEE 5.

Robert
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Thank you for pointing that out! I didn't even realize. I appreciate your detailed response. Definitely helped me decide, and when I get around to it, I will buy the rat 5. Thanks again
 
Pyromancer said:
I'm under the impression that Ontario sued Jeff Randall and Mike Perrin for ownership of the "RAT" name. Seems unethical to me, therefore I would NOT buy the Ontario product.
http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/s...of-happenings-between-Ontario-and-RAT-Cutlery
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If you are going to haul out all that old "stuff", you must, absolutely must, read the whole story here on the forums. Thousands and thousands of words were written. Tearful fanboys ran away with hurt feelings, and enough name calling and hand wringing went on to fill up the boards for months.

In the end, they sorted it out and all got to speaking terms again. Plenty of blame for misunderstandings and over reaction was there from all folks involved, but the hysterical shrieking of the fanboys kept it at a fever pitch. Somewhere here on this forum in the archives from a few years ago is a nice letter from the ESEE guys that says they never wanted all the problems that came from their misunderstanding. R/P took their show down the road and began again with their own venue. And when I was buying my last Ontario RAT 5 in D2 from a BF dealer here a few years ago, he told me that all the concerned parties were talking and laughing with each other at the SHOT show a few years ago.

Also, while some are worried about the utility and purposefulness of the Ontario line of RAT knives, they should know that Perrin and Randall designed them under contract for Ontario. Their designs served well for years with Ontario selling thousands of those knives until P/R came to a fork in the road in their professional relationship with Ontario. Suddenly, when the dust up came, their designs were suspect. Nothing had changed with the knives, the materials used, the manufacturing methods... nothing.

I think if the men involved got over their differences and have worked things out to the point of being on friendly terms, there isn't any reason for any indignant posturing one way or another that reheats an old, dead issue.

Robert
 
Forgedfixedblade said:
I just ordered the ESEE 5 last night with kydex sheath, I personally like the blade design better on the ESEE. I also like the fact that there are a lot more accessory items available for the ESEE. Pretty cool how the ESEE is also a purpose built knife, Designed By Military SERE Instructors As A Hard-Use Downed Pilot’s Survival Knife. It's cool how ESEE is a real world training facility where there knives are put to test in the field on a regular basis by pros, not just a knife maker in the market. The E5 also has the saber cut blade since it is a heavier, thicker blade. I just like overly built knives that are proven and can take a serious pounding if need be.
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Yes, but how often do you have to cut your way through a fuselage or pry open an airdropped crate? I'd much rather go with the ESEE 6, with the thinner steel, lighter weight and more appropriate geometry.
 
midnight flyer said:
If you are going to haul out all that old "stuff", you must, absolutely must, read the whole story here on the forums. Thousands and thousands of words were written. Tearful fanboys ran away with hurt feelings, and enough name calling and hand wringing went on to fill up the boards for months.

In the end, they sorted it out and all got to speaking terms again. Plenty of blame for misunderstandings and over reaction was there from all folks involved, but the hysterical shrieking of the fanboys kept it at a fever pitch. Somewhere here on this forum in the archives from a few years ago is a nice letter from the ESEE guys that says they never wanted all the problems that came from their misunderstanding. R/P took their show down the road and began again with their own venue. And when I was buying my last Ontario RAT 5 in D2 from a BF dealer here a few years ago, he told me that all the concerned parties were talking and laughing with each other at the SHOT show a few years ago.

Also, while some are worried about the utility and purposefulness of the Ontario line of RAT knives, they should know that Perrin and Randall designed them under contract for Ontario. Their designs served well for years with Ontario selling thousands of those knives until P/R came to a fork in the road in their professional relationship with Ontario. Suddenly, when the dust up came, their designs were suspect. Nothing had changed with the knives, the materials used, the manufacturing methods... nothing.

I think if the men involved got over their differences and have worked things out to the point of being on friendly terms, there isn't any reason for any indignant posturing one way or another that reheats an old, dead issue.

Robert
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This is a good synopsis of the issue brought up; an issue that really has no place being discussed further.

That said, the question still at hand (though it seems the OP has made choice) is whether the Esee is worth the price increase over the Ontario. For me it is and for the reasons I listed earlier.
 
TheJeepster said:
If we are allowed to give just a simple vote with out trying to show we know everything in the Ontario/ESEE business world I would like to cast a vote for the Ontario RAT 5.

It is just a simple knife and why pay more when you can get a good product at less.

Ontario RAT 5 is my vote, unless the choices have changed and then I vote for the SP10 Marine Raider with a 499 for back up and a SP6 stuck in your boot but only if they are in the choice list.

Has anybody shouted out BK16 yet as a thread is never complete until it is suggested.
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I personally don't care about any of the political BS. I didn't know of any of it when I bought most of My Esee knives. For me the Esee is a better value. I like a good sheath with any knife. The Esee has a great one and the Ontario has a terrible one IMO. This alone would make me pay the extra for the Esee. To make the knife a viable carry option for me I would need an after market kydex sheath that would likely run $60-$70 once it was made and delivered. Add in the better warranty, fit and finish, and heat treat and the Esee looks like the clear winner to me. Up to a certain point you pay for what you get.
 
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