Etching a W2 blade with vinegar

jooR S7UpiD VId3o RUiN3D My K3Rsh4W L33K :mad: :grumpy: :mad:!!!"

I notice you coat the clip, which obviously isn't going to have any activity. Is that so the oxide is relatively uniform across the blade?
Do you do all your etch passes (5 - 13, according to your video), and then polish, or do you stop and polish between passes?

By the way, is that JoeP's blade? Is this the finished product?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v9EpItK01hQ

"I get these frustrated emails where guys are having trouble getting the hamon to show, and eventually they admit they left out the dish soap. I don't know if they think I say to put it in because I have too much dish soap and I want to get rid of some, or because I want them to waste money..."

:D
 
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Nick!! When do you add the special ingredient to the vinegar? You know this...

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Thanks Nick, I really appreciate these videos you are putting out!

If you were using lemon juice instead (I really hate the smell of vinegar), would you do it the same way as you're showing in this video (heated juice, dish soap, etc.?)
 
Hey guys- I was away from the pc all weekend, so I'm just seeing the posts :)

Yes, you definitely want to remove/polish/"sand" the oxides off between each etch. If you DON'T, then you're not providing a nice, clean surface for the etchant to "bite into." I use powdered abrasives between each etch.... that are suspended in oil. There are MANY ways to do it. I started off about 9 years ago, removing them with Flitz.... then other stuff like Mother's, and Semi-Chrome, etc.... then started messing with powdered abrasives because of conversations with THE MAN, Don Fogg. I still use LIQUID Flitz sometimes... but mostly I just use powdered abrasives that I buy online.



Robert, hold up buddy! Not so fast!!! WHO said the clip isn't hard?!?! :eek: ;) :D The Joe Paranee Fighter Project called for a sharpened clip. I won't put a sharp edge on soft steel.... so I had to harden the clip on all the blades. Since I didn't use clay, it required the clip to be ground in fairly close PRIOR to hardening.... so that I could get the clip area to harden just with time and temp. The blade I'm etching in these videos, actually has a crazy wicked turn-back... :D



Paul- Yep, pretty much the same. I talked to a sword polisher that gets something like $50-60 PER INCH of blade length, and he uses lemon juice. Before anyone freaks out, he readily admits that he does this, and recognizes it is NOT traditional. But anyway, he told me he paints the line itself with lemon juice on a Q-tip. I tried it, and it didn't work for me. But in all fairness, I'm sure there's somebody saying they tried those stupid methods Nick uses and they didn't work for shit. ;) :foot: ;)

When I do use lemon juice, I use REAL lemon juice. I tried the stuff in the green bottle, and got a very splotchy etch, even with soap in the juice. I bought some lemons at the grocery store, and a little juicer gadget at Dork-Mart for like $3, and I was in business. Some guys say lemon juice makes the line more white. It MIGHT....but from what I have seen, I think that is more due to polishing technique than etchant.

Oh, the blade in this thread (and these vids) is NOT the one in the link that Robert (lazlo) posted... that's a very similar blade though. :) I'll update this thread with some pics/vids soon.

Thanks guys :)
 
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Hi Nick,

NickWheeler said:
Robert, hold up buddy! Not so fast!!! WHO said the clip isn't hard?!?! :eek: ;) :D The Joe Paranee Fighter Project called for a sharpened clip. I won't put a sharp edge on soft steel.... so I had to harden the clip on all the blades. Since I didn't use clay, it required the clip to be ground in fairly close PRIOR to hardening.... so that I could get the clip area to harden just with time and temp. The blade I'm etching in these videos, actually has a crazy wicked turn-back... :D
Click to expand...

Note that I said "no activity in the clip" -- I assumed, incorrectly, that since you quenched the whole blade, you'd only have activity around the edge. :o

So when you do a clay-coated blade, and the spine is pearlite, do you still coat the whole blade with lemon juice/vinegar to keep the oxide layer even?
I have Walter Sorrel's polishing DVD -- I'm curious now if he coated the vinegar all the way up to the mune.
 
Hi Robert- I was just bust'n your chops ;) :D

As a demonstration of proof that I am miles away from feeling like I truly have heat-treating figured out.... there's this: I quenched the blade POINT down into slightly warmed P#50. I interrupted the quench slightly. I ASSumed ;) I would get the hardening in the blade that I did... However, I also got a very nice hamon running around the TANG. The tang was only a few thou thinner in cross section than the thickest part of the blade, so you'd think it would cool off enough to harden up a bit... but not to form a hamon all the way around it. I mean, I would have thought :foot: :D

I always go over the whole blade with the etchant...but I focus much more right over the transition area. Otherwise, I think I'd be better off just submerging the blade into vinegar the same way I submerge damascus into Ferric.
 
This is the W2 blade from the sanding and etching videos. It ended up taking more etch/polish cycles than I had hoped... but that's situation normal around here ;)

I think it's pretty neat what time, temp, and geometry will do... without using clay. Oh, and a lot of elbow grease ;) :) Oh, and lots of Wonka Nerds... Don't forget the Wonka!!!! :eek: ;)

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That sure is neat Nick. I too am fascinated by the activity you can get without resorting to clay. Personally I like it much better this way.

All these pretty pictures you keep posting are really making me want to go out and club a baby unicorn for it's fur.
 
Thanks Jason- No need to club one, they sell it on ebay now! ;)

I always thought you were from Medford.... Maybe you told me Talent and that it was near Medford.... Somehow I just noticed it says Talent, OR, beneath your name. My 50# Little Giant was bought by a blacksmith to use in his shop in Talent, OR, in 1928!!! :) :cool: :)

edited to say- I won't say I like the sans clay stuff BETTER, but I'm pretty fascinated by it. It's just more proof of what Don Fogg told me however many years ago that the clay is not what makes the hamon, it just influences it. :)
 
OK im gonna ask and look like a noob.... Ive read that the japanese would just keep polishing and polishing to bring out the hamon. Does the etching method just bring out the hamon by causing slight color difference in the steel? What exactly is the etching doing?

One day Im gonna have to save up and buy a Nick Wonka knife!
 
Ebay you say...I'll look into that :D How do you tell if it's genuine? I've heard some bad stories about ebay.

Talent is a little itty bitty town just 5 miles south of Medford. I pretty much consider the whole area as one small city and I've lived at one point or another in most of the small towns around here.


How thick is the spine on that knife?
 
So, according to the oxide polishing video you posted, the secret is actually playing Zac Brown Band when working. I knew there was some subterfuge!
 
Here's the knife, all finished up with some gem grade, stabilized Koa that I bought from Mark at BurlSource. :)

[video=youtube;iaiH0lQ_1X0]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iaiH0lQ_1X0[/video]
 
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