Etching Damascus

A

AlaskanHunter

Joined
Nov 23, 2013
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Several months ago, I made my first small billet of damascus from 1084 and 15N20. I should have known better, as I really am not ready or skilled enough to pull it off successfully yet. Anyway, I finished forging it out the other day, and managed to salvage a piece off it that was large enough to make a "S" guard for a blade I'm working on. Problem is, when I attempted to etch it (just a trial to see the pattern, its not fully shaped and polished yet), the 15N20 has very little contrast to the 1084. I could easily see the different layers, but they were roughly the same color. I etched in hot vinegar, and the piece is unhardened.
Do I need to harden it to get the contrast? How fine should I sand it prior to etching? Is scotchbrite too aggressive for cleaning the oxides off? What is your method for bringing out the pattern in damascus?
 
From what I understand (I've only done 1 damascus), etching is usually done in ferric chloride. Once etched, I darkened the carbon with gun bluing and polished the nickle with some 600 wet or dry.

Did fair, but I too would have liked more contrast. Looked OK though.

Larry
Tinkerer
 
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Ferric chloride not oxide. Ferric oxide is the primary component of iron ores like hematite and also what you for on the surface of steel when you blue it. . As far as post etch "darkening" a number of the European brethren on here have been using cold instant coffee in recent years. That kind of eliminated any potential food comatibilyt issues that you might have with selenium based cold blue solutions.
 
Ok, maybe I'm missing something big here. From all my research, I thought that you dipped or soaked (depending on its concentration) the piece in an acid to force corrosion. After removing the piece from the etchant, scrub off all the loose black powder (the iron oxide?) from the piece, revealing the pattern due to the 15N20 resisting the etch (caused by its higher nickle content). I had thought that ferric chloride was preferred simply because it accomplished in minutes what a weaker acid could accomplish in hours or even overnight.
Is this all one big misconception about the process? If hot vinegar is not a workable solution, what are some alternatives?
If I'm totally headed in the wrong direction, can someone point me toward some good info on the subject? Perhaps a link to a good tutorial?
 
it should be hardened, ferric chloride used for printed circuit etchant from radio shack or electronics supply house. lemon juice and vinegar in a 50/50 mix will work but takes longer than the 15 to 20 minute ferric oxide. I just use 2k wd paper to knock off the high spots on 15n20 and let her rip.
 
Different etchants will leave differing levels of black to the oxides produced. I find ferric chloride leaves nice black oxides on 1080 in my work. You should etch it deep enough that you can feel topography with a fingernail... it may help you to brush the oxides off once or twice during the etch to keep the FC biting the steel aggressively and evenly. Then when your etch is deep enough, don't scrub the oxides, just windex neutralize and simmer for 20 minutes in water with a tsp of baking soda, or immerse in heated (170ish as I recall) STRONG instant coffee for an hour or so. Either will help to darken/set dark oxides to be more permanent. Or, after windex, just blot the blade dry and leave it for a few days before a final surface shine. The oxides should harden well.

I have used sulfuric acid, and muriatic acid in the past as etchants and did not get the results that I do with FC.

Your steel will need to be hardened. It will show pattern if not, but not nearly as well. A deep etch, I feel, is the most important point for good contrast.
 
Well here is my little bit. I etch with one part ferric chloride to about three parts demineralized water. I usually go 12 minutes all at one time but am know trying to go 3 -4 wipe some what clean and go again. If I want it to stay dark, I carefully set it in a strong solution of baking soda and water at least over night, then rub it clean with paper towels. It I'm not going for an all black color, I buff the item. There are a lot of great Damascus makers here. They may tell you better ways. I too will be following to see what they say.
Frank
 
Salem, IIRC, the Euro guys who do this on a post FeCl etch buffed finish, say that hot coffee can have some undesirable effects. I recall them saying that the use strong cold coffee for as long as overnight.
Salem Straub said:
Different etchants will leave differing levels of black to the oxides produced. I find ferric chloride leaves nice black oxides on 1080 in my work. You should etch it deep enough that you can feel topography with a fingernail... it may help you to brush the oxides off once or twice during the etch to keep the FC biting the steel aggressively and evenly. Then when your etch is deep enough, don't scrub the oxides, just windex neutralize and simmer for 20 minutes in water with a tsp of baking soda, or immerse in heated (170ish as I recall) STRONG instant coffee for an hour or so. Either will help to darken/set dark oxides to be more permanent. Or, after windex, just blot the blade dry and leave it for a few days before a final surface shine. The oxides should harden well.

I have used sulfuric acid, and muriatic acid in the past as etchants and did not get the results that I do with FC.

Your steel will need to be hardened. It will show pattern if not, but not nearly as well. A deep etch, I feel, is the most important point for good contrast.
Click to expand...
 
Huh. I'll admit that I'm parroting there, since I've not tried it. I do know that some American guys that were talking about it on facebook (Zoe Crist for one) mentioned using it hot. I should really just try it and see what works for me. I did nearly do it a while back, but then I realized- who the heck has instant on hand? I know I don't...
 
Your guard needs to be hardened for decent contrast. Years ago I'd make quite a few of these slides for wildrags out of my scrap and learned that the hard way. Hardened, good contrast, unhardened nada.

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I use Ferric Chloride mixed at 1 part FC to 2 parts with our well water. Etch in this solution for 1/2 hour, rinse with water, dry with paper towel, hit with 2,000 grit sandpaper and then re etch. Then rinse, dry and sandpaper again, soak with windex (with ammonia) let sit for a few minutes, wipe dry and oil. I haven't ever played withe the coffee, or boiling or any of that as I haven't found the need. Thats for a knife blade. For the slides above and the knife below I wouldn't oil. I'd give em a couple light coats of Deft spray Clear Wood Finish (satin). Thought I'd give er a try on the slides as they are sometimes used on light colored silk and I didn't want the oxides transferring off. When I started making these small all damascus knives I thought i'd give the same treatment a try. Worked like a champ. Knife below is my own personal EDC with 3.5 plus years of daily carry on it. If I'm not using it its in its leather sheath on my belt. It has been used hard as we run a small cattle ranch too as well as all the jobs a knife sees in the shop.

VqQF669.jpg


Interestingly because of the clear coat I've never oiled this knife. Use it and wipe it dry if wet, thats it. Have not noticed any fading in the contrast nor any peeling off of the clear coat. On my regular knives with handles I don't do the clear coat and often wonder if I'm missing something. This one, my ranching partner's knife, I did with the same etching treatment but no clear coat, just oil.

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One really important thing is to remove 100% of decarb prior to etch otherwise it will be uneven and or blotchy.

Setting the etch with hot water after each ferric/water dunk really helps with a nice dark consistent look.

No buffing before etch... at least for me.
 
I've used hot vinegar before. It's always given me a more subtle etch than ferric, which I like. Which is good seeing as how difficult it is to get ferric in Alaska anywhere but Anchorage :-\
 
I have heard it done both ways but I have only SEEN it done the way that the Dutch guys told me about and the result were pretty impressive. They were using O2 which has a LOT of manganese, but they were doing it on a buffed finish which I understand is a bit tougher.
Salem Straub said:
Huh. I'll admit that I'm parroting there, since I've not tried it. I do know that some American guys that were talking about it on facebook (Zoe Crist for one) mentioned using it hot. I should really just try it and see what works for me. I did nearly do it a while back, but then I realized- who the heck has instant on hand? I know I don't...
Click to expand...
 
I etch in a 50/50 ferric chloride and distilled water for about 2- 5 minutes at a time. I wet sand with 1000 grit and then polish with blue 3m polishing paper in between each etch. Repeat as many times as needed until you can easily grab with fingernail. Then remove all black oxide from etch with sanding and polish paper to prepare for black dip magnesium Parkerizing. The Parkerizing is very durable and must be sanded off the raised nickel alloy like15n20. Here is an example of the end result.

 
I want to move to Parkerizing as well. I have seen many beautiful damascus knives that were treated that way.
 
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I have head people talk about how unhardened damascus doesn't etch well, but I have never experienced that. This is a bad picture, but the blade is hardened and the guard and buttcap are not. Unfortunately, I don't have pictures of the front and rear of the guard or the buttcap head on, but you can see what I mean.
 
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Well, here it is. Since there is no local source for ferric chloride, I used boiling lemon juice after hardening. Looks like I've got a lot to learn yet. It looked ok, but I can't get the 1084 as dark as I wanted before the 15N20 starts to darken. I guess I need to figure out how to get some ferric chloride before trying it again. Thanks for the help guys.
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You have to harden and temper it, it won't etch right without. FC/WV is the best solution I have found, Muriatic works as well.
 
Pittknife said:
You have to harden and temper it, it won't etch right without. FC/WV is the best solution I have found, Muriatic works as well.
Click to expand...

Yes, before hardening, I couldn't get even half the contrast as I have now. After hardening and tempering, this was the best I could get. Any ideas what went wrong?


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