Etching Damasteel ??

Chuck Gedraitis Knives

Chuck Gedraitis Knives

Joined
Dec 10, 1998
Messages
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I tried Etching a Damasteel blade I recently finished in ferric chloride and it did not come out too well. I mirror polished it first and cleaned it with acetone and then etched for 30 min. The mix was 1:1 for the Ferric Chloride and water. The blade was dull and the pattern did not show well. I tried giving the blade a quick buff after etching and this did not help.

I might try a fresh mix tonight.

Any suggestions would be appreciated.
Thanks,
Chuck
 
Damasteel is different than Non-stainless Damascus steel. My favorite etch for Damasteel is 20% Muriatic acid. Just buy the 20% or so stuff at Home Depot, put it in a plastic or glass container and etch for a few seconds. Look at it and continue the etch until you are satisfied. The blacks will be black and the bright areas will be shiny enough to make buzz baits from :footinmou
 
Hi Chuck,

I etched several pieces of Damasteel and also talked with a lot of other makers here in Germany. And actually everyone is using sulfuric acid. It's readily available as battery acid (about 30 %). Works just fine. I usually do a "relief" etch and sand the blade again to get the most contrasting pattern.

Here are some pics:

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The pics are a bit dark . The high spots of the pattern are actually finished with 1000 grit and are pretty shiny ( Bling, bling. Big time :D )

I tried ferric chloride but also got a quite lousy pattern.

I hope that this helped you a bit.

Marcus
 
I Get my Nitric from a Local Lab Supply house. I use it in Aqua Fortis. The stuff costs about $20.00 for a liter.
 
bullet101 said:
Hi Chuck,

I etched several pieces of Damasteel and also talked with a lot of other makers here in Germany. And actually everyone is using sulfuric acid. It's readily available as battery acid (about 30 %). Works just fine. I usually do a "relief" etch and sand the blade again to get the most contrasting pattern.



The pics are a bit dark . The high spots of the pattern are actually finished with 1000 grit and are pretty shiny ( Bling, bling. Big time :D )

I tried ferric chloride but also got a quite lousy pattern.

I hope that this helped you a bit.

Marcus
Click to expand...
Marcus
what % sulfuric acid are you starting with?
or are you using sulfuric acid ( ready mixed) electrolyte ready to add to Batteries..
then mixing at 30% ?


nice looking etch
electrolyte is cheep and you can pick it up at most any auto supply store
with-out the hazardous fee's :grumpy:
 
There could have been several reasons that the etch wasnt good.

1. Was the blade properly heat treated? I know this sounds flip but after working in Devins shop for 5 years it turned out to be a fairly common problem though mostly with carbon steels. For a proper etch and color the steel has to be hardened and tempered properly. You most commonly see this with blades and bolsters. The Baldes are a nice dark color while the bolsters have not been heat treated and they are a washed out grey color.

2. The acid is old. Ferric cloride is inexpensive make a fresh batch off 50-50 at about 70 deg and see if that helps.

3. This is probably the most common problem we had with stainless. Makers would grind and finish their blade. Heat treat and temper. Do a final polish after heat treat and etch. Etch looks terrible. It is patchy, cloudy and washed out. The common problem was carborization (sp). That carborization will not etch well. You need to grind 1-2 thousands off at a minimun from the blade after heat threat to remove the carbarization. More grinding may be needed if you do not heat treat stainless in foil. I can't stress this one enough. You want everything that is going to be showing, shiny fresh ground metal.

4. Sometimes polishing before the first etch causes problems. If you can, do the initial polish after your first etch.

5. Try cleaning the blade with plain ole soap and water. There is something about acetone that causes problems with etching in ferric cloride. This was probably the second most common problem we had in Devins shop.

Hope this helps.
 
Sulfuric acid can be purchased under the name "Liquid Fire" used for cleaning clogged drains.

Nitric acid can be produced by mixing two types of acid and distilling. I think sulfuric and hydrochloric. Dont try this at home.
 
Dan Gray said:
Marcus
what % sulfuric acid are you starting with?
or are you using sulfuric acid ( ready mixed) electrolyte ready to add to Batteries..
then mixing at 30% ?


nice looking etch
electrolyte is cheep and you can pick it up at most any auto supply store
with-out the hazardous fee's :grumpy:
Click to expand...


sulfuric Battery acid ( ready mixed) is called electrolyte ready to add to car Batteries (pre-mixed with water)..this is what new batteries use when newly filled.

it runs $5.99 for 1 1/2" gal. At your Napa Store,, :D costs me $4.99

edited to add Mark do you know the % of sulfuric in it.
 
Mark Williams said:
Nitric acid can be produced by mixing two types of acid and distilling. I think sulfuric and hydrochloric. Dont try this at home.
Click to expand...

Actually, I think the mix is sodium or potassium nitrate and sulfuric acid. (A commercial process uses a catalyst to oxidize ammonia then dissolve in water.) I wouldn't recommend it for basement chemistry, either, unless you know what you're doing.

Dan, I looked up the concentration of battery acid the other day. I think it said it ran from 32% up to 80%, with the average being about 50% by weight.
 
great Thanks Mike

assuming
bullet101(Marcus) is using battery grade Battery electrolyte then water down more at about 30 %). this should work well. :D

mix acid to water guys
not water to acid :(
 
YW, Dan. Wise advice, too, about how to dilute. A face shield may be in order, too.

I might add, use distilled water to dilute so you don't neutralize a lot of acid with minerals dissolved in drinking water. Diluting sulfuric acid generates quite a bit of heat (exothermic, it's called), so don't do it in thin plastic like a gallon milk jug.
 
Is a long section of large diameter PVC pipe capped off going to be able to hold up to sulphuric?

If I recall the battery cases are made of polybutylene. This stuff is oily in a sheet form,and I have always assumed it was the oily property of the plastic that made it hold up to the acid inside....

So mix the electrolyte down more than the jug?

Just trying to make sure I get this right befoer I ruin a couple of blades I am working on

Doc
 
Mineral acids don't react with almost any plastic. You're quite safe with the PVC. My concern was if someone got carried away pouring acid in, generated enough heat to soften, and then spill. I've seen large tanks where acid was being poured into water too fast and 5000 gallons started boiling. I had a bud at work get a bootfull of concentrated sulfuric acid one time. By the time we could get his boot off and the stuff nuetralized, he'd been hurt enough to be off six months. Sulfuric acid is an oxidizer and "hydrophilic" (water lover). That means it likes things like flesh a bunch. :(

Sorry to lecture, but this stuff can be very nasty. I worry about giving somone chemistry advice without the caveats. I often wonder about some folks who ask questions and then we never hear from them again. :eek: Please let us know your success!

Doc, I'd dilute it 1 part acid into 2 parts water and try it. Save some acid on the side. If it isn't strong enough, add a little more acid. Since what we're looking for is to get the two steels to react differently, the more dilute, the greater the difference. That said, since it's stainless, there will be some resistance to any etching, and thus there will be a minimum concentration necessary to see a change in a reasonable time. Better to creep up on it with too dilute an acid than have to start over finishing, IMO.
 
I agree Mike....I would much rather have to wait than start over making so much work. If I make my tank out of polycarbonate tubing (lexan) I can actually watch it work.

The polycarb should be much sturdier than the PVC so I don't have to worry much about heat melt. Will still add the acid in gradual doses so as not to upset the way of the universe.

Last question from me on this subject. Can the straight electrolyte be used with electronic rub off stencils to etch marks in the blade.....like ones makers mark?
 
Doc Hollywood said:
Is a long section of large diameter PVC pipe capped off going to be able to hold up to sulphuric?

If I recall the battery cases are made of polybutylene. This stuff is oily in a sheet form,and I have always assumed it was the oily property of the plastic that made it hold up to the acid inside....

So mix the electrolyte down more than the jug?

Just trying to make sure I get this right befoer I ruin a couple of blades I am working on

Doc
Click to expand...

The way I get it from Napa (by the 1 1/2" gal) it's in a cardboard box in a plastice bag,
the bag has a rubber pore tube , now isn't that COOL..heed Mike's advice..
 
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