Etching Damasteel ??

[Dan Gray]

I agree Mike....I would much rather have to wait than start over making so much work. If I make my tank out of polycarbonate tubing (lexan) I can actually watch it work.

The polycarb should be much sturdier than the PVC so I don't have to worry much about heat melt. Will still add the acid in gradual doses so as not to upset the way of the universe.

Last question from me on this subject. Can the straight electrolyte be used with electronic rub off stencils to etch marks in the blade.....like ones makers mark?

if your thinking eletro etching NO wrong type of electrolyte
electrolyte is a word of a sort,,,,it's a conductor,, salted water is an electrolyte,,,

 

[Dan Gray]

if your thinking eletro etching NO wrong type of electrolyte
electrolyte is a word of a sort,,,,it's a conductor,, salted water is an electrolyte,,,

MATERIAL SAFETY DATA SHEET
I. PRODUCT IDENTIFICATION
DISTRIBUTOR CHEMICAL/TRADE NAME Battery Electrolyte
Exide Technologies (as used on label)
13000 Deerfield Parkway, Bldg. 200
Alpharetta, GA 30004
CHEMICAL FAMILY/ Battery Fluid, Acid
FOR INFORMATION CLASSIFICATION
(610) 921-4052
Fred Ganster, Environmental, Safety & Health DATE ISSUED: September 1, 2004
Page 1 of 4
FOR EMERGENCY
CHEMTREC (800) 424-9300 CHEMTREC INTERNATIONAL (703) 527-3887 – Collect
24-hour Emergency Response Contact
Ask for Environmental Coordinator
II. HAZARDOUS INGREDIENTS/IDENTITY INFORMATION
Approximate Air Exposure Limits (µg/m3)
Components CAS Number % by Wt. OSHA ACGIH NIOSH
Sulfuric Acid (H2SO4)
Water (H2O)
7664-93-9
-
30-40
60-70
1000
-
1000
-
- -
NOTE: Sulfuric Acid is water-reactive if concentrated.
III. PHYSICAL DATA
Boiling Point @ 14.7
psia
203° F
Specific Gravity (H20=1) @
60°F
1.245 to 1.295
Melting Point Not Applicable
Solubility in Water
100%
Vapor Pressure
(mm Hg) 18° F
10
Evaporation Rate
(Butyl acetate=1)
Less Than 1
Vapor Density (AIR=1)
Greater than 1
Appearance and Odor
A clear liquid with a sharp,
penetrating, pungent odor.
% Volatiles by Weight
Not Applicable
IV. FIRE AND EXPLOSION HAZARD DATA
Flash Point: Not Combustible
Flammable Limits: Not Applicable
Extinguishing media: CO2; dry chemical; water fog; water
Special Fire Fighting Procedures:
Beware of acid splatter during water application and wear acid-resistant clothing, gloves, face and eye protection.
Unusual Fire and Explosion Hazards:
Reacts violently with metals, nitrates, chlorates, carbides, and other organic material. Reacts with most metals to yield
explosive/flammable hydrogen gas.
Page 1 of 4
Page 2 of 4
V. REACTIVITY DATA
Stability: Stable X
Unstable
Conditions to Avoid: Contact with organic materials, combustibles, strong reducing agents, metals, strong oxidizers, and water.
Incompatibility: (materials to avoid)
Contact with metals may produce toxic sulfur dioxide fumes and sulfur dioxide.
Hazardous Decomposition Products:
Sulfur trioxide, carbon monoxide, sulfuric acid fumes, and sulfur dioxide.
Hazardous Polymerization:
Will not occur.
Conditions to avoid:
Not applicable
VI. HEALTH HAZARD DATA
Routes of Entry:
Sulfuric acid is harmful by all routes of entry.
Inhalation:
Breathing of sulfuric acid vapors or mists may cause severe respiratory irritation.
Ingestion: May cause severe irritation of mouth, throat, esophagus, and stomach.
Skin Contact:
Severe irritation, burns, and ulceration.
Eye Contact:
Severe irritation, burns, cornea damage, blindness.
Effects of Overexposure - Acute:
Severe skin irritation, damage to cornea may cause blindness, upper respiratory irritation.
Effects of Overexposure - Chronic:
Possible erosion of tooth enamel; inflammation of nose, throat, and bronchial tubes.
Carcinogenicity:
The National Toxicology Program (NTP) and the International Agency for Research on Cancer (IARC) have classified "strong
inorganic acid mist containing sulfuric acid" as a substance that is carcinogenic to humans. This classification does not apply to
sulfuric acid solutions in static liquid state or to electrolyte in batteries. Inorganic mist (sulfuric acid mist) is not generated
during normal use of this product.
Medical Conditions Generally Aggravated by Exposure:
Overexposure to sulfuric acid mist may cause lung damage and aggravate pulmonary conditions. Contact of electrolyte (water
and sulfuric acid solution) with skin may aggravate skin diseases such as eczema and contact dermatitis. Contact of electrolyte
(water and sulfuric acid solution) with eyes may damage cornea and/or cause blindness.
Emergency and First Aid Procedures
Inhalation:
Remove to fresh air immediately. If breathing is difficult, give oxygen.
Ingestion:
Give large quantities of water; do not induce vomiting; consult physician.
Skin: Flush with large amounts of water for at least 15 minutes; remove contaminated clothing completely, including shoes.
Eyes: Flush immediately with large amounts of water for at least 15 minutes; consult physician immediately.
Page 3 of 4
VII. PRECAUTIONS FOR SAFE HANDLING AND USE
Handling and Storage:
Storage/handling areas should be equipped with eyewashes/safety showers. Handle cautiously; avoid contact with skin and eyes.
Handling/storage areas should be equipped with proper containment to capture and neutralize spills.
Spill or Leak Procedures:
Stop flow of material. For small spills, neutralize with soda ash, lime, or sodium bicarbonate. Dilute cautiously with water.
Wear acid-resistant protective clothing and equipment.
Waste Disposal Methods:
Place neutralized slurry in sealed containers and dispose of as hazardous waste, as applicable. Large water-diluted spills, after
neutralization and testing, should be managed in accordance with local, state, and federal requirements. Consult state
environmental agency and/or federal EPA.
Precautionary Labeling:
POISON - CAUSES SEVERE BURNS
DANGER - EXPLOSIVE GASES
CORROSIVE - CONTAINS SULFURIC ACID
KEEP AWAY FROM CHILDREN
VIII. CONTROL MEASURES
Respiratory Protection:
None required under normal conditions. When concentrations of sulfuric acid mist are known to exceed PEL, use NIOSH or
MSHA-approved respiratory protection.
Local Exhaust:
150 ppm
Special:
Acid-resistant ventilation components
Protective gloves:
Rubber/plastic with elbow length gauntlet
Eye Protection:
Chemical goggles; safety glasses/face shield
Other Protective Clothing or Equipment:
Acid-resistant apron, boots
Work/Hygiene Practices:
Handle cautiously; avoid contact with skin and eyes.
IX. OTHER REGULATORY INFORMATION
NFPA Hazard Rating for sulfuric acid: WHMIS Classification for sulfuric acid:
Flammability (Red) = 0 This material has a WHMIS classification of E –
Health (Blue) = 3 Corrosive.
Reactivity (Yellow) = 2
Sulfuric acid is water-reactive if concentrated.
U.S. Department of Transportation:
Proper shipping name: Battery fluid, acid
Hazard Class/Division: 8
ID Number: UN2796
Packing Group: II
Label Required: Corrosive
RCRA: Spilled sulfuric acid is a characteristic hazardous waste; EPA hazardous waste number D002 (corrosivity).
Other Canadian Regulations:
All chemical substances in this product are listed on the CEPA DSL/NDSL or are exempt from list requirements.
CERCLA (Superfund) and EPCRA:
(a) Reportable Quantity (RQ) for spilled 100% sulfuric acid under CERCLA (Superfund) and EPCRA (Emergency Planning and
Community Right to Know Act) is 1,000 lbs. State and local reportable quantities for spilled sulfuric acid may vary.
(b) Sulfuric acid is a listed "Extremely Hazardous Substance" under EPCRA, with a Threshold Planning Quantity (TPQ) of 1,000
lbs.
(c) EPCRA Section 302 notification is required if 1,000 lbs or more of sulfuric acid is present at one site. Battery electrolyte
contains 30-40% sulfuric acid. Contact your Exide representative for additional information.
(d) EPCRA Section 312 Tier Two reporting is required for non-automotive batteries if sulfuric acid is present in quantities of 500
lbs or more and/or if lead is present in quantities of 10,000 lbs or more.
(e) Supplier Notification: This product contains toxic chemicals that may be reportable under EPCRA Section 313 Toxic
Chemical Release Inventory (Form R) requirements. For a manufacturing facility under SIC codes 20 through 39, the following
information is provided to enable you to complete the required reports:
Approximate
Toxic Chemical CAS Number % by Weight
Sulfuric Acid 7664-93-9 30-40
If you distribute this product to other manufacturers in SIC Codes 20 through 39, this information must be provided with the first
shipment of each calendar year.
Note: The Section 313 supplier notification requirement does not apply to batteries that are "consumer products".
CAA:
Exide Technologies supports preventative actions concerning ozone depletion in the atmosphere due to emissions of CFC's and other
ozone depleting chemicals (ODC's), defined by the USEPA as Class I substances. Pursuant to Section 611 of the Clean Air Act
Amendments (CAAA) of 1990, finalized on January 19, 1993, Exide established a policy to eliminate the use of Class I ODC's prior to
the May 15, 1993 deadline.
TSCA:
Ingredients in Exide's batteries are listed in the TSCA Registry as follows:
Electrolyte CAS NO. TSCA Status
Sulfuric acid (H2SO4) 7664-93-9 Listed
PREPARED BY: ENVIRONMENTAL, SAFETY AND HEALTH DEPARTMENT
EXIDE TECHNOLOGIES
13000 DEERFIELD PKWY., BLDG. 200
ALPHARETTA, GA 30004
VENDEE AND THIRD PERSONS ASSUME THE RISK OF INJURY PROXIMATELY CAUSED BY THE MATERIAL IF
REASONABLE SAFETY PROCEDURES ARE NOT FOLLOWED AS PROVIDED FOR IN THE DATA SHEET, AND VENDOR
SHALL NOT BE LIABLE FOR INJURY TO VENDEE OR THIRD PERSONS PROXIMATELY CAUSED BY ABNORMAL USE OF
THE MATERIAL EVEN IF REASONABLE PROCEDURES ARE FOLLOWED.
ALL PERSONS USING THIS PRODUCT, ALL PERSONS WORKING IN AN AREA WHERE THIS PRODUCT IS USED, AND ALL
PERSONS HANDLING THIS PRODUCT SHOULD BE FAMILIAR WITH THE CONTENTS OF THIS DATA SHEET. THIS
INFORMATION SHOULD BE EFFECTIVELY COMMUNICATED TO EMPLOYEES AND OTHERS WHO MIGHT COME IN
CONTACT WITH THE PRODUCT.
WHILE THE INFORMATION ACCUMULATED AND SET FORTH HEREIN IS BELIEVED TO BE ACCURATE AS OF THE DATE
HEREOF, EXIDE TECHNOLOGIES MAKES NO WARRANTY WITH RESPECT THERETO AND DISCLAIMS ALL LIABILITY
FROM RELIANCE THEREON. RECIPIENTS ARE ADVISED TO CONFIRM IN ADVANCE OF NEED THAT THE INFORMATION
IS CURRENT, APPLICABLE, AND SUITABLE FOR THEIR PARTICULAR CIRCUMSTANCES.
ANY PHOTOCOPY MUST BE OF THIS ENTIRE DOCUMENT

 

[Doc Hollywood]

Dan...wasn't thinking of electro etching.

Years ago I went to one of the Batson Hammer-Ins. This was when he still did them in his back yard....long before the tannehill thing started. One of the makers that was there demoing his work and howto was showing a few of us how to use the rub off electronic stencils to etch a blade. I remember he used some form of acid, and it was only on the steel (not stainless mind you) for about 1 to 2 minutes and he neutralized it and cleaned the blade off.

When the letters were wiped away you could see a raised area where the letters had been, and a fairly shallow etch (.003 or.004) around it. He buffed the blade out and the lettering was still there and very sharp looking.

I cannot remember what type acid he was using. Just baffles the hell out of me.

Doc

 

[Dan Gray]

Dan...wasn't thinking of electro etching.

Years ago I went to one of the Batson Hammer-Ins. This was when he still did them in his back yard....long before the tannehill thing started. One of the makers that was there demoing his work and howto was showing a few of us how to use the rub off electronic stencils to etch a blade. I remember he used some form of acid, and it was only on the steel (not stainless mind you) for about 1 to 2 minutes and he neutralized it and cleaned the blade off.

When the letters were wiped away you could see a raised area where the letters had been, and a fairly shallow etch (.003 or.004) around it. He buffed the blade out and the lettering was still there and very sharp looking.

I cannot remember what type acid he was using. Just baffles the hell out of me.

Doc

a good resist <spelling? F/C will work for you. others will also but I would think you'd want the resist to be compatible with your etching medium
in the case you're using the letters would be made of the resist

 

[Chuck Gedraitis Knives]

I really appreciate all the tips. I re-etched the blade and bolsters in a new solution. It worked great. I took another pic and will post it later tonight to show the difference.
Thanks,
Chuck

 

[Chuck Gedraitis Knives]

Here is a pic of the re-etched blade and bolsters.

 

[fitzo]

Looks like it worked just fine! Nice knife. I really like the texturing on the liners!

 

[Doc Hollywood]

Very nice work! I have a feeling someone will claim that one quick upon viewing.....kinda want it for myself....

Doc

 

[CanDo]

Very cool,
I was experimenting with this today using roughly 50/50 30% muriatic and tap water.

All that I really know is that this provides an oxidizing coat for the steel (so isn't it just fancy rust?).

I'd be interested in any sort of coat, ugly or otherwise (Actually, I think that a flat grey would look kind of cool). I'd love to just play around and experiment, but my supply of acid is rather limited, so I'd like to start with as good of an idea as possible.

Procedure that I'm planning on using:
~Clean steel with soap and water.
~Dunk in diluted muriatic acid, check every ten seconds for the first while, and as often as neccesary for however many seconds/minutes/hours necessary.
Pull out.
~Hose off VERY thoroughly.
~Shake off most water, and liberally coat with WD40 (to buy some time)
~Use rags or papertowels to dry blade then pour on rubbing alcohol. This should make the blade dry MUCH MUCH faster.
~Spray again with WD40
~Look, hope, pray, and wonder what to do next.
Just let me know if this is likely to get my blade or myself killed.

More serious questions though:
~ If done properly, can this oxide coat seal and protect carbon steel from rust and other nasty disfigurations?
~ How well will it hold up? Is it just for decoration, or can throwers be coated?

Thanks for any help

 

[RHINOKNIVES]

I go the easy & safe route when etching Damascus, I hav'nt etched Damasteel. Anyway a friend of my ruined most of the ground knives in his shop from the fumes of the type of acid he was using he left it open over night in the shop . I don't remember the type or how strong? I use warm apple vinegar you can do it in the house if you want! or this time of year leave it in the sun and it will etch farly fast 12-24 hr. I pull it out and look every few hours and give a scrub till I get the change I want. its noncastic, I already had to quit knifemaking for a year because of becoming senitised to rosewood etc, its long term exsposure we have to watch with all the stuff we work with. and when your done you can just dump it down the sink. if you really like adventure you could use it for salad dressing!