Ethics and legality of copying designs

Lumanid

Lumanid

Joined
Aug 23, 2010
Messages
19
Hi, what are the general ethics and legalities of copying other people’s knife designs?

- In general, is it looked down upon?
- Does it put someone in potential legal jeopardy for violating intellectual property laws?
- What if you change the design somewhat?
- Are CNC designs considered intellectual property and require permission or licensing to use?

The reason I ask is because there’s a knife maker who made a design that I greatly admire, but it was a custom job so there are none for sale. I’m interested in making my own version.

I’d appreciate any feedback or insight. Thank you.
 
While others may disagree, I have always found personal use to be a free for all. Profit/resale is not only incredibly frowned upon, but can open you up to litigation if you copy certain designs.
 
Though I have heard of people contacting the maker of a custom piece and getting permission to make a run of their design.
 
It's pretty old, but Popular Woodworking had a pretty good article about this years ago. Generally (and legally) speaking, copying someone else design is not allowed even for personal use. Whether someone would be pursued for copying a design for personal use that they have no intention of selling is likely a different matter.

https://www.popularwoodworking.com/interviews/imitation-illegal/
 
I first had this problem when I wanted to make a Loveless drop point hunter for myself. It is probably the most popular design in the last twenty years. I made the tang a touch longer and the blade atouch longer as well and did not taper the tang or use loveless bolts in the handle. Others copied it exactly. Mr. loveless himself said he copied the blade from a knife he had seen. It seems to me that men have been making knives for thousands of years and most knives are pointy at the front, sharpy on the bottom, generally have handles of the length that fits the average hand. Many of these creations are bound to look similar if not downright identical. I have made hundreds of knives that I call "one of a kind" but odds are that somewhere out are some knives that look the same. If you are not going
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[/IMG] top manufacturethe knives in large numbers and sell them as your own creation then I do not see the problem. Just my opinion. Larry
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It really depends on the knife you are copying. If the knife has a patented device (lock or other feature), then any copying is illegal. If it is just a knife with a shape you like, it is fine to make one like it. The only thing that is totally illegal is you can not put anyone else's name or logo on it. You can make all the Loveless drop point hunters you want, but you can't put the naked lady logo or his name on it.

Yeas ago I wanted to make a special wootz dagger. I worked with Greg Orbach and he made me a huge wootz billet. I decided on a blade design that ended up being a slight modification of the Besh Wedge. I could have made it and just called it my design, which it was, but contacted Brent Bashara and asked his permission. He kindly allowed me a one time use of his patent. I credited him with the bevel shape in all publication and photos. The wootz dagger won an award. Today it is in a large collection. Here are some photos I found in a quick search.
img_20170404_070625534-jpg.695751

img_20170404_070730569-jpg.695749

Top image and center lower image blade design by permission of Brent Bashara.
 
This has been discussed before... and the best advice has been ... ask the maker! Likely they will say, especially for personal use, to go for it.

my personal experience is that, legally speaking, if you do something for personal use, there is no problem. You cross a line when you do anything that earns money from that “copying”, or causes someone else to not buy the original makers product. (Technically the original person would have no claim of “damages”).
 
Stacy E. Apelt - Bladesmith said:
Yeas ago I wanted to make a special wootz dagger. I worked with Greg Orbach and he made me a huge wootz billet. I decided on a blade design that ended up being a slight modification of the Besh Wedge. I could have made it and just called it my design, which it was, but contacted Brent Bashara and asked his permission. He kindly allowed me a one time use of his patent. I credited him with the bevel shape in all publication and photos. The wootz dagger won an award. Today it is in a large collection. Here are some photos I found in a quick search.
img_20170404_070625534-jpg.695751

img_20170404_070730569-jpg.695749

Top image and center lower image blade design by permission of Brent Bashara.
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I can't see the images and would really like to see the dagger!
 
Lumanid said:
What would be the answer if I said personal use versus for profit/re-sale?
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You said you admire the design but none are for sale. Have you asked him if he will make you one. It’s generally very bad ethics to try and profit off of someone else’s hard work. We all are gifted with creative minds so design a blade that you like. You can be inspired by other designs but to straight up copy a blade is kinda low under handed especially if you have not even asked the original creator.
 
That is a very nice dagger Stacy. The bevel design is very interesting.

JTknives said:
You said you admire the design but none are for sale. Have you asked him if he will make you one. It’s generally very bad ethics to try and profit off of someone else’s hard work. We all are gifted with creative minds so design a blade that you like. You can be inspired by other designs but to straight up copy a blade is kinda low under handed especially if you have not even asked the original creator.
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I agree with you JT, although I would say that I find creativity to be the hardest part. I got some of the David Darom art knife books and time after time I keep wondering how they came up with the idea. No matter how many knives I sketch I just wouldn't think of some of those things. It is interesting how a few subtle features can be a signature of the maker. Someone posted a Sam Lurquin piece the other day and just the guard alone says who made it.
I told Bruce Bump I was going to try a trapped ball pommel. He was nice and gave a few tips. I guess he shouldn't be worried that I could copy his work!
 
i mainly do loveless inspired copies. i learned from his book in which he teaches you to make one of his knives. so i have to assume he wound not mind me doing so. and mine cost much less :) . that poor guy jason knight- so many copied the harpoon clip bowie he popularized, and i never saw any of them give him any credit, and i dont think they asked.. i title my blades loveless styled, or loveless inspired, out of respect and i do not want some new guy thinking i came up with the design.
 
It never hurts to ask the maker if they mind for you to try to make one or their patterns. 9 out of 10 will say go right ahead, and a lot of makers will even send you the template. Giving credit if you share it should go without saying.

Every now and then you’ll come across a maker who prefers their work to not be copied. In that case, it’s best to move on, or if it’s a general enough feature that you like, put your own spin on it.

Just be prepared to be “dinged” by their followers if you get too close. :confused:
 
Look a bunch of pics knives you like, then draw a knife afterwards. Then you'll get something of your design, inspired by others.
Nothing illegal about that.
 
It's written "nothing under the sun is new, and there goeth nothing that hath not gone in ages past" (paraphrasing probably). I have never seen a design I wouldn't make at least a small change to. That being said, if I were asked to make a near exact copy of a design that did not incorporate patented or trademarked features, I would take the job. My Street Beat inspired custom is an example. And when I publicly showed my work I made sure to mention Fred Perrin as the designer who inspired the piece.

I have a fixed blade knife design I am very fond of that I heavily based on the shapes, ergos and performance characteristics of the Spyderco Military, Endura and Resilience, three of my absolute favourite EDCs. I call it my design, but like any invention of man, something like it came before and all I did was refine and change what was already there.
 
David Mary said:
It's written "nothing under the sun is new, and there goeth nothing that hath not gone in ages past"
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True, but you also made the "Barax" design which is pretty dang unique. If I saw someone making and selling them, I would come to you to make sure you gave permission.
 
I respect that and I can't say I wouldn't be slightly miffed if someone was passing it off as his or her own design. But in the end it's made up of lines and curves and I can only think one who has a legitimate claim on those patents, and He shares them freely.
 
It's hard to break new ground in knife design, but sometimes you see something unique.
I had a customer send me a picture of a knife recently and asked if I could make him one. It had some unique features and style and after seeing that he could easily get one I passed and reccomended he buy one from the original maker.
I have a pocket fixed blade that I designed that is pretty unique. It got really popular and now makes up about 70% of what I sell. It's kind of become my brand. I will admit, I won't be pleased when the day comes that I see the exact knife made by someone else. It's too easy to make something your own, even when taking inspiration from others.
 
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