Ethics Question

I know no limits in helping people, communities that I know, trust and care about. I am generally reluctant to sponsor goals where I have to take a word of some beaurocrat about how my money is being spent. Trying to make me feel guilty causes totally reverse reaction. I worked for Motorola and consulted for a university. Both were PUSHING for United Way donations. I've heard rumors about huge salaries earned by United Way executives and told them to go to hell.

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At the same time I didn't have a smallest problem donating to BF or AKTI.

Cheers,
Kris


[This message has been edited by jeegeet (edited 01-29-2000).]
 
Hey Granite! Good question, but one I have dealt with often in the past (from friends and in readings- I am a philosophy student!!!) I don't want to repeat what others have said, so I will do my best not to. I'd like to point out that your friend seems to be arguing on egalitarian grounds- that we sould have a fair distribution of goods to everyone. That is nice and all on paper, but doesn't really work. For example, say there were ten people in a room, and all decided to order pizza. how much should each get? well, 1/10 of the pizza right? O.k. And we shall assume everyone pays 1/10 the cost of the pizza. But, who will go and get the pizza? (or order it for delivery- the argument still works) Lets say you have to go and get the pizza. You now did more work than anyone else for the same amount of pizza. So perhaps you should get more pizza to compensate for your extra work. But then that means that you get more than everyone else! Perhaps you just pay less and you make up the difference getting the pizza. Well, tou are still paying less than everyone else, so you will have more money than everyone else- not equal at all. Egalitarianism works out on paper, but given the standard ways we go about our thinking, egalitarianism doesn't work that well in the field.
I hope no one else said this before me! I know this sounds like a complex answer to the question, but the question posed to you, at least I feel, is a complex one itself.
Thanks for listening!

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"Come What May..."
 
Originally posted by Crayola:

[snip]
... else- not equal at all. Egalitarianism works out on paper, but given the standard ways we go about our thinking, egalitarianism doesn't work that well in the field.
Click to expand...

It kind of works except the government is the one getting and distributing the pizza. Then each of 10 people gets an equal 1/20th.
smile.gif

K.
 
I usually use the Bible to pick my way through ethical problems, and I know of nowhere in it that says you are not entitled to enjoy the fruits of your labor.Contribute when and where and how much you see fit, and ENJOY your life!

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AKTI Member #A000934
"Think not that I am come to bring peace on earth:I came not to bring peace, but a sword." Matthew 10:34
 
If i had extra money, i'd go into downtown DC and find some homeless guy. get him a shave and a suit and a shower. then he could get a job and support himself.

if you give people the money, they buy booze and drugs... that won't help them.
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-ediconu
 
I wish non knife folks would read this thread!!! I bet it would change their ideas about what us knifenuts are really like!!!

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"Always think of your fellow knife makers as partners in the search for the perfect blade, not as people trying to compete with you and your work!"
 
If everyone would practice true community (not communism) and take care of the ones around them at all levels, this would be moot. Most of the countries deemed "poor" are involved in political strife which causes the problems for the less fortunate. Refugee is the term usually involved. People have many choices in life, and the sum of those choices is their life. Giving a few dollars for a fish does not teach them to fish.

A member here has the signature "You are where you are supposed to be, doing what you are supposed to be doing, otherwise you would be somewhere else doing something else". That is a very deep sentiment on many levels.

Funny how the billions of foreign aid paid for by hardworking taxpayers like the fine folks here still allows children to starve in the world.

My father was born in a barn to sharecroppers, the southern version of indentured servants. I am one generation past a soup stone, if you know what that is. It was through community, helpful and caring neighbors, that they were able to better themselves.

Brandon

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"You should never never doubt what nobody is sure about..."
 
I am 60 years of age and living on a modest self-funded retirement pension.
I still ENJOY making affordable donations to worthy causes.
The "I've got mine" attitude is a mystery to me. The "fruits of our labor" thing is a valid argument but I cannot help thinking of the millions who work a whole lot harder than most of us in the developed world for very much less "fruit"....purely by accident of birth.
An occasional small donation goes a long way in the Third World and doesn't have to delay the purchase of that Sebenza or whatever all that long.
I can't help thinking that poverty and lack of education in poor countries is the greatest threat to world peace (and the comfort and safety of the more favored nations).
Feelings of guilt ? Why not ? The rich nations have been exploiting the poorer ones for a long time.
By all means, enjoy the fruits of your labor....but share a little of it around.

So I am a bleeding heart...... I can live with that
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BrianWE

Do it, do it right and ....nah, Mike'll do it.
 
Community helps a lot, but it doesn't determine your overall prosperity. For example the USA is probably not the world's shining example of community--you'd probably find that in some primitive village on a remote island in the pacific. We are blessed with abundant resources in natural materials, ambition, drive, freedom, and capital. We also have a belief that you measure a man by his deeds, not his background. We have opportunities here that allow us a much easier path to self improvement than in many underdeveloped parts of the world. I don't think education and personal attitude is as much of the explanation as we would like it to be. There is much untapped human potential in the "3rd world" that can't advance in place.

A couple cases I've seen. I have an old friend, born in a modest sized town in Mexico. If his father hadn't died he'd probably be a mechanic in the family garage. Instead his mother emigrated to the US and he grew up to work for NASA. Another guy I know was a Vietnamese boat person. He plucked chickens for a year, then hitch-hiked to Berkely and wangled his way into UC. He worked his way through by tutoring Vietnamese students. He heads the electronics design group for an aerospace company. If he'd stayed in Vietnam, at best he'd be pushing an abacus in the family shop, at worst he'd be doing forced labor for being too priveledged.

So the world is not equal. We could only make it equal by pulling everything down to a lower level. We can try and help, but don't sacrifice the freedom and opportunity that make this country great.
 
I look at it this way: It wasn't the Almighty who raised up her nightie... nor was it me. Go blabber to the party responsible and stop telling me I'm supposed to be concerned.
What foreign country takes care of the starving children in the U.S.?
 
There is nothing wrong with giving to legitimate charities; nor isthere anything wrong with enjoying your life. What those impoverished countries REALLY need is more knives!

Howie
 
The way I see it, these problems were not created because I spent my money on my hobbies, nor will these problems go away if I stopped spending my money on my hobbies. So, off I go to buy a new knife!


Jason
 
Granite,

My personal approach is to try to make sure that I am giving as much to a trusted charity as I spend on luxury for myself. I don't feel guilty about spending money on knives as long as my obligations are met first. I personally consider it a moral Obligation to try to help others with at least as much as I spend on my luxuries.

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AKTI Member No. A000370
 
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