Etiquette for cancelling an order?

See2

See2

Joined
Dec 5, 2000
Messages
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Guys - I have a problem. I ordered a knife from a maker back in March of this year. The maker told me it'd take 3 months to make the knife. Here it is, almost January (7 months past the "due date" I was given), and I want to cancel the order. The only problem is, I've been in contact with the maker, and he told me the knife is pretty much complete - he just had some finishing work, and assembly left to do (he also mentioned he'd do it within the next few days - that was 2 months ago). Now, I'm not angry with him, or disappointed. I know he's probably got a ton of things going on in his life, and the knife probably doesn't rank very high on the list. I've just come to the decision that, since so much time has passed, I no longer desire to have the knife. The $450 I would have paid for it can go towards other things in these lean times.

So, the question is, how do you suggest I go about cancelling the order? Like I said, I'm not angry, or disappointed. So, I harbor no ill will. I respect the man, and would like to possibly do business with him in the future - just not now. So I don't want to burn any bridges. What do you think I should do?

Oh - and there's the question of the deposit ($100). Should I ask for that back, or let him keep it, since he's already done most of the work?

Thanks for the help!
 
You have already paid a deposit,go ahead and take the knife when it is finished.Even if it means extending yourself.Sell it after you take possession if you want.
My .02
 
I can relate to your situation. I am having about the same problem, but mine is with some very expensive custom made revolver grips for a S&W. On 11-1-01 the maker emailed me and said that my grips would be ready in two weeks or so. It has been almost eight weeks since he said that they would be ready. Mind you, I have already prepaid for the grips. I emailed him on 12-13-01, and I have not gotten a reply, so I emailed him again today requesting when my grips would be finished.

Anyway, to answer your question. I would cancel the order since the wait has been so much longer than the maker quoted. As far as the deposit goes. If the maker required a deposit to take your order, then he should keep it, but if you volunteered to make a deposit then he should give it back. Big D1
 
As a maker,I hate to see this happen.While it is not uncommon to run over deadline dates,I don't feel that it is appropriate not to contact the customer or to continue giving false promises.The maker in question may do quality work but the point is that he accepted the order, gave you a date and should do his best to deliver.If he can't make the date, he should contact you and give you the option of waiting or cancelling.Artistic talent should be no excuse for bad business practices.And yes,I would ask for the deposit back.Dave
 
as a maker I can see where this might be troubling. BUT.....if you have been given multiple delivery dates and are no longer happy then you show follow your heart and cancel. Simply explain why without anger. I would ask for the deposit back unless this has been agreed differently at the time of order. I know that many times we get emotional about knives and even after getting exactly what we order it can sometimes merely remind a person of a deal gone bad.
 
Maybe it's not so much about "should I cancel" or "should I not cancel"...seems like you kinda have your mind made up. I think the most tactful way to "break the news" is to explain the whole situation to the maker. Pretty much explain to him/her what you've explained here...that it's been so long and that times aren't what they were 7 months ago. I regardless of if he/she required a deposit or if you volunteered one, the deposit is a deposit.

If you are willing to change your mind, I personally would take Randy's advice...take delivery of the knife. If you like it, you'll be stoked, if you don't like it, you can sell it. IMHO it's better than loosing the deposit. :) I had a knife that I was told would be a 6 week wait...6 months later I got the knife. I was really bummed that it took so long - I was pretty much in the same situation as you. But I held onto the knife, and after meeting the maker in person at a show and carrying the knife, I've discovered I really like it (Deryk Munroe, Chimera).

In the end it's all up to you. :)

~Mitch
 
Remark about deposits. Most makers do not require deposits for custom knives, and the reason I believe is to avoid a situation like is going on here, so in my opinion it does matter whether or not the deposit was required or not when it relates to deposit terms.

Anyway, do not put your self in a financial situation that you will regret. Big D1
 
I agree with DC knives and Bill siegle, plus I would ask for the deposit back, you lived up to your end of the bargain, the maker did not. I he refuses your request for a refund, then I would pin him down to a "MOST DEFINITE DATE", and take delivery on it. Foolish IMO to let $100.00 go down the tubes, sell the knife if you want, later. I am a maker and I will not take deposits. Good luck to you.
 
I feel your pain. What's frustrating is that I'd rather hear "I've fallen behind and it will be two more months," rather than "Your knife is almost finished...almost finished...almost finished."

Unless I needed the cash freed up for something else I'd probably wait it out -- unless I was so unhappy that I couldn't eventually enjoy the knife.
 
Chris:

There's some really good advice here.

To me, one thing that comes into play is whether the maker ever contacted you to explain why the knife is taking so long. If you had to contact the maker every time, it seems that priorities are not what they should be. It would seem to me unfair if a maker holds higher regard for one customer over another, once the orders are accepted and delivery dates are quoted.

Explain the situation to the maker as you have here and simply ask for your deposit back. That shouldn't be a problem.

I appreciate your tact in not mentioning the maker's name here.;)
 
If the maker is really that busy he should not have any trouble in finding another buyer for the knife.

Cancellation in this case would not be an insult to most makers.
 
I agree with the above advice. If the maker has not kept you informed as to why there has been such a delay, and has also been making false promises of delivery, then you should not be concerned about cancelling your order. With everything that you have pointed out, it seems to me that the maker should be willing to give you back your deposit. If he is not, and you are not pleased with his explanation why he will not give you your money back, then please feel free to tell us all about it.

Merry Christmas everyone, and here's hoping for a great 2002 for all.
 
After recieving private email, I guess I aught to clarify things about my Deryk Munroe Chimera. The knife was so late, because right when Deryk was supposed to get to starting my knife, he ran out of Talonite. It was I think 3 months before he got any Talonite in...it was at the time last year that it was in very short supply. Then after he got the Talonite, he hurt his hand. Then when his hand was better his grinder motors died. All these things I found very frustrating at the time, but after I got the knife I was very happy with it. When I met Deryk in person a few weeks/months? after I got the knife it was great to be able to talk face to face about all the challenges he faced...This is why I mentioned Deryk by name and the Chimera by name - I meant it as a good thing. Didn't mean to upset anyone.

~Mitch
 
Mitch, it is good that you cleared things up. your original post did not leave me thinking that you were complaining about Deryk, but I can see how some might have taken it that way.

Have a great holiday season.
 
Guys, this is why I posted here - great advice, all around. I'll email the maker tonight, and cancel. I'll be friendly about it (since, as I said, I hold no ill will), and ask for the deposit back. Who knows? In time, I'll probably place an order with him again.

Tom - thanks, man! Yeah, I saw no reason to post his name, and possibly put his reputation into question. I assure all of you he is a well liked, and well respected maker of some very beautiful knives. It just isn't working out this time around.

Thanks again for the help, and I hope all of you have a safe, happy holiday!
 
I am a part time maker. I wouldn't have any problems with someone cancelling an order. As for the deposit I don't know enough about your agreement. I don't take deposit and that is one of the reasons. The other reason is I don't give firm delivery dates either (remember I am part time). I only give general times and am up front with it "Will be done when I get it done". :D I do contact a customer and tell them I am about to start their knife so if there is a change or something.

I do ask for a deposit to hold a finished knife for a customer (sort of a layaway plan thing), if they want to pay it out or buy it over an agreed to time. That deposit is NOT USUALLY refundable because the knife is off the market, unless circumstances warrent it. Two quick stories about two orders:

1. I took an order for two knives from the same guy. Told him when I started them. When they were done I contacted him by email and asking for him to verify his address for shipping. No response. A week later I called him. He stated that he hadn't been on the computer in a while and he would send the money ASAP. I said ok just wanted to be sure he said no problem. Week later no money. Called him again. He said he had mailed the check the day before. I again said that I was just checking on the situation. HUM Ok so I waited another 10 days. No money. I sent him an email that the deal was off and the knives were for sale. Never did get the money. I did check the Good, and Bad sections of several of the forums and his name was definately in the bad column. All he had to do was tell me he had changed his mind!!!!!. The TRUTH, that is.

2. I got an order and we agreed on materials. I contacted the guy when I got ready to start his knife. He said he wanted to wait because he was unsure about his job future. No problem. I wished him well. But I started the knife anyway because I had received several inquiries about the same style knife in the past and I was going to make it and put it up for sale on my web site. Well another customer who had bought a knife from me contacted me and wanted to know about the exact same style knife. I told him I was making one at that very time. He told me what he wanted for handles and I finished the knife for him. An what about customer number 1? Well before I got the knife finished, he contacted me and said his job was ok and to start the knife. :) So I am making another one now for him.


Good comunication is the key.

Merry Christmas and Happy New Year!!!!!!!!!!!!!
 
After collecting custom knives for 30 years, I have pretty much gotton used to, 'When it arrives, it arrives'. I have only canceled two orders in all that time. Each time I called the maker and explained the situation and the order was canceled, no problems. The only time I would not expect a deposit back was if the knife was started or material purchased or non standard material such as handle material had been purchased. -Dick
 
What Dick pointed out is something that is quite important. If the maker has had to purchase special materials to make a knife, or has almost finished a knife made to the customers specifications, then I think he is well within his rights to refuse to return a deposit.
 
I think the issue is really: do you want to cancel the order because the maker has lied to you (which can be argued for or against) or is it because you changed your mind? If the latter, I don't think you're entitled to your deposit back - although the maker might choose to give it back to you for CS' sake.

Personally, I feel that as a collector, the only cases where I can cancel an order legitimely are when I feel a maker will not be able to deliver - whether he's screwing me or not. When I place an order, I ask for an estimate of the delivery, and I put money aside each month in a separate saving account. That way the money is there and is commited. If the maker was overdelivering on an expensive knife by more than a couple months, I would have to talk to him about working a payment schedule out, 'cause I wouldn't have the full amount ready.

The economy is not a good excuse to cancel an order I think. Unless there's a case of "force majeure" (e.g., you or your partner have been laid off, you have to pay for unforeseeable expenses such as medical treatment,...), the maker shouldn't be the victim of anyone's lack of financial planning.

The only case when I seriously considered cancelling an order was when a piece similar to the one I had commissioned became available way before mine would be ready. I talked about it to the maker who was courteous but firm that he would not refund my deposit or change my order. He did say that he had no problem with my turning around and reselling his piece immediately. Eventually, I chose to wait for my order, which left me a much better taste in the mouth.

The comment about the maker running out of Talonite makes me think of another occasion where, for a variety of reasons, I ended up paying the total amount several months before delivery. One thing that delayed the delivery further is that the maker only ordered the supplies when he got ready to start my order. Some of the supplies were back ordered and the whole thing got delayed because of that. Considering the fact that I had payed the full amount up-front, I was really pissed me off that the maker had not purchased the supplies when he had received my payment.

I think the situation is a good start point for sa discussion: Makers, how often do you have customers cancelling on you? When that happens, do you have any problem "recycling" the knife or material to another customer? How do you feel about the whole thing?

JD
 
No - I don't think he's lying to me. I just think he's got a lot going on right now (an assumption - I don't know him personally), and the knife isn't very high on his "to do" list. He quoted me a 3-month time frame. It's been 7 months now. My interest has waned on the piece, and, honestly, I can use the money I would have paid for it on other things (like "rent", and "food"). Sooo, I cancelled. Hopefully, it'll go cleanly. I DID ask for the deposit back, but if he wants to keep it, I have no problem with that at all.
 
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