Ever Progressing Edge Retention

M

microtech85

Joined
Dec 1, 2015
Messages
468
When I first started getting into knives, I quickly gained the idea that more edge retention is always better. I began to relate edge retention to quality steel. As I have come to learn more about what I appreciate in a knife, I have realized that I do not need the latest and greatest in edge retention. I like to keep my knives very sharp and that means that I touch them up on at least a weekly basis. It seems that regardless of which steel I have used, vg10, s35vn, or s90v, the fine edge lasts about the same amount of time.
So I Find myself touching up my vg10, s35vn, and s90v with about the same frequency. I do know that the s90v keeps a working edge a lot longer, but I never really let it get too dull to have to worry about it. So, now I have come to appreciate steels that are most well rounded. I like s35 because it takes a very fine edge and it takes it relatively easily. I like victorinox steel because of how quickly I can put a fine edge on it. I now carry my pioneer with me in addition to my primary folder. I rarely use the blade on the pioneer. I keep it for times where I want a very sharp edge for precise cuts.

I think the point of my post is that I believe edge retention is not the sole indicator of quality in edc knife steels, although it seems like the two are increasingly going hand in hand.
 
I agree, edge retention is not the sole indicator of quality (though the perception is there). A knife is the sum off all pats = a quality product or not.
 
I have never tried any steel with better edge retention than elmax and I have to agree I still found myself touching up frequently to keep that super fine edge.

On the other hand though there are certain materials and takes I won't use a steel like 1095 on because it would dull in the first cut. Things like fiberglass, some fabric like denim if it's a lot of it bunched together, etc. On stuff like that I do sometime wish I had a super steel to at least keep cutting a little longer. On the other hand they usually take longer to touch up if you let them get super dull, do you end up touching them up in the middle of cutting anyway.
 
microtech85 said:
As I have come to learn more about what I appreciate in a knife, I have realized that I do not need the latest and greatest in edge retention.
Click to expand...

I agree.

Like any attribute, you only need as much as you need. If the knife gets dull because it hits a staple in cardboard, or a rock in the dirt, then extra edge retention means nothing. Wear resistance helps in the case where you're cutting something without incident long enough that the apex gets worn down without chips or rolls. So, clean cardboard or the omnipresent Manila rope. Deer hide, maybe?

Like you, I enjoy the blades as sharp as I can get them, and resharpen often to keep them that way. Because of that, the difference in edge retention rarely shows. I do keep a stretch zdp189 sharpened very acutely as a dedicated cardboard knife, because of this. But for other folders, I use s35vn (crk) and whatever victorinox uses, the same as you.
 
I also agree with the main point of the OP. Edge holding is not the main measure of a steel for me. I try to balance edge holding and toughness in some ratio that matches what I use the knife for. On a folder that isn't going to do much in the way of heavy or dirty work, I'll aim more for edge holding. But M390 (or 20CV), Elmax and S35VN are the "newest" steels that I currently have in my folders. And since most of my folders are Emersons, they're 154CM... "old school" nowadays. Still works fine, though, and that's one of the reasons that I buy and carry mostly Emersons when I want a folder. I've tried others from ZDP-189 to S110V and just didn't find any appreciation for them. I like a steel that I know and that I'm comfortable with. I like working "on" my tools as well as working "with" my tools, so sharpening and maintenance are more therapy for me than chore.

For fixed blades, it's a different story. I don't always have a folder on me but I always have a FB. They're the ones I reach for when the job is dirty or "rough", so I like a steel that's slanted more toward toughness than edge holding. 1095 and 3V are the steels I have in most of my FBs. I really like 1095 the way it's done in ESEE's knives for larger FBs. It'll take a lot of hard use and come back easily. CPM 3V is my fav steel for small FBs right now. I've had very good results with 3V from Bradford and Bark River. It takes a great edge and is easy to bring back. It's also extremely tough. I can use it around the warehouse or at home... just about anywhere and it's going to perform very well.
 
microtech85 said:
When I first started getting into knives, I quickly gained the idea that more edge retention is always better. I began to relate edge retention to quality steel. As I have come to learn more about what I appreciate in a knife, I have realized that I do not need the latest and greatest in edge retention. I like to keep my knives very sharp and that means that I touch them up on at least a weekly basis. It seems that regardless of which steel I have used, vg10, s35vn, or s90v, the fine edge lasts about the same amount of time.
So I Find myself touching up my vg10, s35vn, and s90v with about the same frequency. I do know that the s90v keeps a working edge a lot longer, but I never really let it get too dull to have to worry about it. So, now I have come to appreciate steels that are most well rounded. I like s35 because it takes a very fine edge and it takes it relatively easily. I like victorinox steel because of how quickly I can put a fine edge on it. I now carry my pioneer with me in addition to my primary folder. I rarely use the blade on the pioneer. I keep it for times where I want a very sharp edge for precise cuts.

I think the point of my post is that I believe edge retention is not the sole indicator of quality in edc knife steels, although it seems like the two are increasingly going hand in hand.
Click to expand...

I agree completely. I also don't use my knives all day. I may use my knives 2 or 3 times a day for simple stuff and some days not at all. Because of that I am going the same route as you. With the prices of knives rising quite rapidly in the last few years the less I buy. I also am buying less "super steels" because I find that I don't need them. Guys that used their knives 100 times more than me got by just fine with a 1095 steel slip-joint in their pocket.
 
I went somewhat the other way. I figured out that I simply don't need a hairpopping edge for any of my EDC tasks and that I was, in many ways, wasting the potential of the steel by constantly trying to maintain it. Once I made the decision to simply be satisfied with a good, working edge my appreciation for the edge retention of PM steels soared.

I honestly think it's all about wants and needs. I also think we, as knife nuts, frequently overbuy our actual needs. We buy new steels as much for the sake of the steel as we do for any cutting tasks. It's pretty backwards, but if it makes people happy I don't usually judge.
 
I want as much "edge retention", or even "apex stability", as I can possibly get, on all my knives! Now "toughness" vs "wear resistance", that's a different topic altogether. Kenny, I like what you said. 1095 would be a poor choice for cutting abrasive materials. Just like S110V really isn't best for straight razors. Lots and lots of variables to consider when it comes to knife performance!
 
I like insipid moniker's post. I have recently been trying to leave my edges alone. But so far i just cant do it. The temptation to keep them ultra sharp is still too great. Plus it only takes me about 2 minutes per blade except with s90 on my 940-1 which seems to take twice as long. I love my 940-1 because of how easy it is to carry but i wish they made an s35vn blade for it. I have been thinking about sending it in to benchmade and paying to have them put on the s30v blade if they could.
 
Sak and opinel is just about all I use these days. At most I sharpen once a week for all of 5 minutes on the outside. Every once and a while I'll carry an s30v Millie but more for funsies. And I use my knife quite a bit at work. Not sure what everyone else is cutting that they need 110v. Not knocking it, just not for me and my use/maintenance needs.
 
For the last several weeks I have been using my Spyderco with the toothy edge and CPM-S110V and just talking about trimming hard rubber now, I have been sawing my way along with it and enjoying it . . .
but
the last few days I have been carrying my Ti handled Boker with the 440C blade with the mirror polished hair whittling edge and just talking about trimming hard rubber . . .
when I use it and when I see that sick edge glinting back at me while I use it . . .
I mean just talking about the way it feels when it cuts and leaving out the glinty looks . . .
I want to hollar :
Oh YAH
Yee-haw, and
Heck YES !

But that's just me.
 
Microtech, before you go checking on that s30v swap, locate a Spyderco (I like the manix) cruwear sprint.

The steel has Very Quickly become one of my favorites. I own/owned knives in 1084, 1095, 52100, m390, s110v, s35vn, s30v, vg10 and a Bunch others... But this Cruwear is an odd duck.

It doesn't take much to touch it up or remove some material, and it takes a Really keen edge. Dmt coarse chews right threw it, and a DMT fine was plenty to remove the factory grind marks. In under 5 minutes I was finishing up my initial reprofiling on my DMT EF stone and a few passes (3-4 on each side) on a ceramic rod treating it as a butchers steel and it is hair popping sharp.
- The odd part is that it will hold the fine edge longer than one would think, gauging by how it sharpens. I cut 30'-40' double walled cardboard daily, Countless plastic box bands, pallet wrap, food grade plastics (from paper thin up to 1/8" thick), and a Bunch of other stuff.

After a days work, it will still cleanly slice paper and if I want it to be back to hair popping sharp, a few passes on the ceramic rod and it's fine. Prior to my first reprofile, I went a week on the factory edge and it still had a working edge, though slicing paper was not capable, nor was shaving.
--------
It is peculiar, but I Love it. The knife has become my work knife and I can't see it being kicked out of my pocket for a Very long time.
 
I was OC about the sharpness of my edge even just a few years ago. That phase waned together with my desire for buying whatever new knife came along. I just started using the knives I accumulated and never even touched up my edges for two or three months at a time. That's where I found that the wear resistant steels shined even more than when cutting a lot of media at one sitting. I find that I don't need a hair splitting or even armhair shaving edge for most of my tasks these days.Since I don;t routinely perform surgery with my pocket knives, a working edge(one that wear resistant steels hold for an inordinate period) is really what I need.
 
I agree with NJBillK. I bought a Cts-PD1(extremely similar to Cruwear) flipper recently with a good HT. My idea of a fantastic steel is one that can sharpen up very easily and hold an edge for a long time, not to mention tough at the same time! I find CPM 3V like that as well. K390 is not the same, but it is easy to sharpen, tough, and holds an edge for a really long long time. All of them get hair splitting sharp too! Would really like to try the Vanax steels, those seem like they would perform well plus corrosion resistant! Wish they were used more!

I love that I can choose between all these great steels out there! So many good ones out there, all you have to do is find someone that can do a good heat treat!
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top