Every Knife Maker's Worst Nightmare?

[Ramiel]

I agree with the thought that you can't control what people use your tools for. I wouldn't want you to feel guilty even if it was used in a malicious way towards innocents. I mainly brought this up just to get the conversation going with how a knife maker may best handle the media attention should it ever hit home. Like I said in the original post, my mind starts to think on things pretty heavy when I hear the news about another tragedy and how, instead of focusing on the victims, the media loves to point the finger at the item used. Others have said it, someone will use whatever they can get their hands on to kill another if they have the motive. Ban guns and knives will be used, ban knives and they'll use bats or something else. On and on it goes.

 

[jdm61]

This is strange. I actually had a conversation like this with my friend Fabian Damanet when I was in Belgium. He does heat treating in the Liege/Herstal area and the biggest jobs he has been doing for the last couple of years is heat treating the wire penetrator core that gets swaged into the SS109 5.56 x 45 NATO rounds made at FN. He said that he had been having a crisis of conscience of late because he feared that his product was being used to kill innocents, particularly in places like Africa. I told him that the bad guys in Africa are using old Eastern Bloc weapons and ammo for the most part and that his product was designed to penetrate armor and helmet. The lead surrounding did the most of the killing. It actually seemed to help, but we had been drinking the Gembloux abbey beer, so who knows?

 

[setlab]

My worst knife related nightmare would be for a really nice knife after weeks and weeks of work were to break, even worse would be to cut yourself while it broke. But then again I've been accused of being insensitive more than once. I could see how it might affect one of you full timers businesses if you happened to do a lot of local business.

 

[setlab]

I make tools; I can't control what people do with those tools.

It is highly unlikely that a criminal would spend hundreds of dollars on a custom knife.

They cost less then a gun, and crimes of passion planed out or no can be commited by any group of people reguardless economical status.

 

[Del Raso Knives]

I have related this story here before and it goes to show how little control and therefor fault we have as knife makers. A guy orders a tanto style knife from me at a show. In the following months he bombards me will phone calls, can you change this, can you change that, will it be sharp. Finally in a nice way I suggest that we put the knife on hold till he has a definite idea of what he wants. Several months latter I hear from a dealer that the guy has tried to kill himself by slashing his throat with a kitchen knife. He staggers out into the street were passers by ring for an ambulance and he recovers. A year later he tries again, successfully with a chainsaw in his living room. Are we as makers legally responsible for the end use of our wares.....No. Do we have any control over how they are used...No. Are we morally responsible.....No, but as decent people we can't help but be affected. Do we need to be mindful of the the media....Absolutely.

 

[Phil Dwyer]

Not sure how I'd deal with a scenario such as described in the OP. It'd be a bummer on my conscience (regardless of media).

Why not make the question even closer to home? What if it were a friend or family member that abused the "tool" you made? Maybe on him/herself or someone else? That'd be a tough bit to live with, no? Even more pointedly, would there be nuances to the wretchedness if the dire deed was done with re-purposed kitchen cutlery verses a knife truly designed to be a weapon, such as a dagger or some such? For my part, I believe there would be.

I cannot equate someone re-purposing a baseball bat for ill will with that of using a combat weapon, such as a machine gun, for mass murder.

Can we always obviate ourselves from responsibility?

What if we suspect or have reason to believe or know there was imbalance (toward self or others) in a friend or family member...or client? Do we still go through with the sale, the gift, the housing of weaponry in their proximity? For instance, I know a guy whose daughter was suicidal (she was an adult survivor of child molestation) so he got rid of all his hunting guns. His wife cried (for his lifestyle sacrifice...and their daughter's dilemma) as he carted his guns away. This was a guy who kept his firearms carefully locked in one cabinet and his ammo in another. He simply was worried it would not be enough and did not want to take the risk.

When I was a young lad in the seventies making jewelry, of all things, I had a guy who wanted me to make brass knuckles (out of sterling) with skulls on them because it would be cool to leave them as imprints on people's faces when he got in fights. I did not take the commission. On another note, I knew a guy that lost a finger wearing one of my rings when the stone got caught on a stable wall as a horse fell against it. That was a bummer, certainly not my fault, but a bummer. You can bet ever since then I told customers to be careful while wearing jewelry. (I don't wear any.)

My hat's off to all you good bladesmiths and knifemakers, as well all folks who are wrestling with the anguish of violent tragedy.

 

[james terrio]

But I think the OP is looking toward the idea of how we would handle the media...

Right, and we're showing it. I realize this doesn't reach the amount of people that CBS or Fox News does, but BFC is a form of media too. Our posts stick around here a heckuva lot longer than they would on the nightly snooze. I'd say the same things to a reporter that I've said here.

 

[Bufford]

I have no control over how my knives will be used after they are sold. Certainly with the number of knives in circulation that I made over the years there is a chance that one may be used in foul play either harming human or animal life. Then again if one of mine was not available the perpetrator would have used a different knife. It doesn't bother me one bit, its the person using it, not the knife itself.

 

[frenchman]

I have thought about it quite a bit. At the risk of sounding callous... it doesn't worry me at all. I make tools, collector items, and defense knives. They're not harmful weapons until someone with bad intentions uses them that way.


Would it be tragic? Of course. Would I feel blame? No.

Ding ding ding... We have a winner.

 

[oic0]

The only way it would bother me is if it were a gift I had given a friend and the friend killed themselves or someone else with it. That would be a big kick in the nuts. Beyond that, I've never made anything good enough for me to want to put my name on it and sell in confidence, but if I did I can't imagine caring what the purchaser did with it after its left my hands. You didn't aid them or take part in any way. If it weren't your creation it would have been something else. Just like these people going after gun rights, if the nut jobs don't use guns they can just as easily use a bomb, bus, flammable tanker truck, poison, etc.... Just about every other method I can think of would actually do more damage! *off soapbox*

 

[JAMerolle]

I have not read all the post here but there is a flip side , what if one of your knives saves someone's life and is used for good. Like cutting someone out of a crashed car and applying first aid.

Just follow the laws of each state and don't sell to a minor and perhaps do a background check before selling. There is a scripture that comes into play here , no weapon formed against you will prosper , this can be said for the knives you make. Like someone said above your a tool maker you don't make weapons. If there is a wacko trying to hurt someone he/she can use any device , heck you can do a lot damage with a pencil for that mater.

 

[JCaswell]

People that blame a knife or a gun for a crime are without moral compass.

They're confused and tend to be the same folks that insist there is no "black or white" only "gray" when it comes to questions of morality.

When indisputable evil crops up, they protect their (by definition) amoral worldview by blaming inanimate objects for evil acts, and by extension, impute guilt to completely innocent people that don't agree with their reactionary "solutions".

That's just my 2cents.
Make your knives and be happy you aren't blind.

 

[Stacy E. Apelt - Bladesmith]

I'm moving this to Around The Grinder, which is for this type of conversation.

 

[carbonsteel928]

I had a pair of machetes back in the 70's that were marked Juan Corona which happened to be the name of a mass murderer who was chopping up farm workers in California in the early 70's. I had bought the pair for change in the mid 60's; but when Juan came the public's attention I sold them for a pretty penny just because of the logo. So if this is any indication it may not be such a bad thing. True story.

Interesting story, Fred. It goes to show that our fascination with the darker side of humanity can be quite overwhelming.

As a relatively new maker, this used to worry me until I came around to the same train of thought of some of you... I make tools and have no control on how they are used once they leave my shop. The media does scare the crap out of me though, it seems like the truth is the last thing on their mind when scaring folks and increasing ratings is their first priority.

 

[sunshadow]

I mostly make tools, but when I make a knife for a soldier it is designed specifically for the purpose of killing as a weapon of last resort. I am proud that a few people who are in combat situations would consider my knives worthy of a place in their battle rig. I don't make mall ninja knives or things that look like combat helicopters to sell to the public, I make mostly hunting knives and tools as well as historically styled knives. Yes I would feel bad if someone used my knives for evil, but once a customer takes ownership, I have no control nor responsibility for their actions.

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