Expand 110 to a Family?

Joined
Jul 28, 2011
Messages
5,782
This is a spin off of my question about Buck's flagship.... Thoughts?

Most people agree that the Buck 110 is among the most recognizable American knives and the knife that is most clearly associated with the Buck brand. It's a pattern that has been said to be the most copied knife in the world and it's the knife that created and legitimized the folding lock-back design.

Today, the single blade locking knife is far and away the most popular style of knife but the Buck 110 is increasingly cast aside by current buyers in favor of more modern designs. How could an American icon and creator of the style loose the imagination and interest of the buyer? More importantly, could Buck utilize it's great heritage to reclaim it's spot at the top of the locking folder market? I think it would be possible. This is what I would do if I were in charge...

The first thing to consider is what current buyers are looking for. Three things stand out to me. First, the drop point blade is king. The 110's traditional clip point makes sense for hunting, but the market has spoken in terms of its preference for the drop point for every day use. Second, increasingly knives are carried in pockets, not in belt sheaths. Lighter weight and thinner options are a must. Thirdly, there appears to be increasing demand for higher quality steels - something that boads well for Buck given their history of leadership in heat treatment.

Here's the main thrust of what I would do. I would expand the 110/112 names from single models to a family of models with different blade and handle options sold at different price points. This way, buyers could buy a "110" but buy a 110 variant that makes more sense for them. I would also trademark the phrase "the original American locking knife" and make it a centerpiece of all packaging and advertising, along with the anvil logo. More on the marketing later, but let's talk about the knives first.


THE BLADES - Probably the most important aspect of what I'm proposing would be the renaming of a few blade types. This will probably be the most upsetting to the most died in the wool Buck traditionalists, but I think it's essential for using the credibility and recognizability of the 110/112 names to reach a buying public is the demanding drop point blades. I would rename the 486 blade and call it the "110 DP". Similarly, the 482 would become the "112 DP" and the 484 would become the "55 DP". I would also make the DP versions blades available in both 420HC and S30V (or another "super steel"). The important thing here is that regardless of profile (clip or drop point) and regardess of size (110, 112 or 55) and regardless of steel type, all knives with these blades would be a part of the "110 family" of knives.



THE HANDLES - I would offer the 110 family of knives with 5 primary choices of handles: traditional brass and ebony, custom, Paperstone Ecolite, Bucklite plastic and stainless. The first 4 all currently exist so the change here would most be around model names and blade options. For example, the Ecolite 112 should also be produced as the Ecolite 112 DP, with the drop point blade. And, the Bucklites should be relabled as Bucklite 110s, 112s and 55s.

The new handle material I'm suggesting would be modern stainless. This would be a rather shameless response to knives like the Kershaw Leek. The look should be completely modern, including screwed on metal scales and reversable/removable pocket clips. But, the handle shape from the side should be exactly like that of the Ecolite and Bucklite Max variants.

And this brings up an important issue in creating the 110 family. The handles need to have an obvious and unavoidable family resemblance in terms of their shape. Obviously, the classic 110 and 112 should remain unchanged for the sake of heritage, but I would (I can hear gasps now) redo the 110 and 112 finger groove models to adopt a single finger groove and then work to slightly evolve both the Ecolite and Bucklite Max lines to bring their basic profiles even more in line with each other. I would certainly thin the Ecolites slightly. From the side and in silloette, the classic 110 FG, 110 Ecolite, 110 Bucklite Max and 110 Stainless should look identical.


THE SPECIFIC MODELS - I wouldn't offer every blade variation with every handle style. Here are the specifics of what I would offer.

Standard Classics - Without question, the Buck 110 should remain largely unchanged with only slight evolutionary changes (as it has for its entire history). I would offer large retail outlets the ability have limited production runs of the 110 with S30V steel or with the 110 DP blade (with or without the thumbstud). As mentioned above, the biggest change to the classic 110 I would make would be with the finger groove version. I would reduce the finger grooves to a single groove, to strenthen the silloette similarity with the rest of the 110 family.

I would make more changes to the 112. I would make it thinner for easier pocket carry. I wouldn't make it as thin as the 500, but definitely thinner than the current models. I would also make the 112 DP in 420HC to be a standard offering. I would only make the finger groove model (again, with only a single groove) with the DP blade.

Lastly, I would introduce a 55 DP. This would overlap significantly with the 501, but I would do it anyway. I would also offer a version of the 55 DP with the same black plastic scales and silver bolsters of the 301.


Classic Customs - I wouldn't change much with the current custom line other than to expand it slightly. Both the traditional clip point and drop point blades should be offered in multiple types of steel. I would also expand the custom line to include the 112.


Ecolite - I would thin the handles of the Ecolites just slightly for better pocket carry. I would make the drop point versions of the blades to be the standard blade offering (no thumbstuds), while offering the clip blade versions as limited production runs for large retailers. I would add a lanyard hole on the butt end of the handle and I would offer a the DP blade only in 420HC. I would make the 112 size the mainstay of the Ecolite line and would offer it both plain and partially serrated versions. I would adverstise the Ecolite 112 DP in every non-hunting outdoor sport magazine I could think of and would go after every backpacking, hiking, climbing, sailing and watersports outlet. In short, anywhere there is a Victorinox display, there should be an Ecolite 112 DP being sold as "the original American locking knife". Lastly, I would also add a black handle to the current set of colors, to emphasize the black/silver motif that the Buck 301s and fixed blades are known for and I would not offer a Ecolite 55.


Bucklite Max - I would merge the older Bucklite line (square edged handles) and Bantam line (mid lock) into the Bucklite Max line. I would change the butt end of the handles to better match that of the 110 and 112 and would make the pocket clip reversible and removable. I would offer these in an extensive array of colors, in the tradition of the older original Bucklites and Bantams. The primary blades in these knives should be the drop point (with the thumb studs) but the black and safety orange versions should also be available in the traditional clip point as well. This is the knife that I would push into every hardware and tool supply outlet.


Stainless Slimline - I envision the stainless slimline versions to be the 110/112s for people who prefer the modern thin stainless look. I would kill off the current Colleague but keep the basic look of the scales. I would offer this knife (initially) in the 112 and 55 size and would offer it in both 420HC and S30V. When viewed from the side, the profile of the handles should match that of the Ecolite 112 and Bucklite Max 112 and the 55. The blade profile should be the 112 DP and 55 DP, both with thumb studs. If demand warrants, this could be expanded to include the 110 size too. Regardless, these knives would all be offered under the larger "110 Family" umbrella.


Anyway... that's what I would do if I were the king of Bucks
 
Last edited:
WHEW!!! You put some thought into this post!!

I'll have to re-read it again later, but you do have some pretty good thoughts.

I would love to see Buck Knives in more of the outdoor stores I go into.

I lost a knife on one of my backpacking trips and the only knife I could buy at the outfitter in the next town was a little lightweight Gerber. I needed a knife so I bought it.
 
Stumps, that is one of the problems I see... I just don't see the quality american steel knives in the common stores ... hardware stores, hunting shops, gun stores... and when I do they are tact. / black junk. I miss the days when every lumber yard, hardware store, 5 & Dime, had display case for Buck, Case, OT, etc.

pinnah... some solid ideas there & like he said, LOTS of thought. The 110 S30V blades are already around, but to have them commonly availible may be an option. The problem with all these adaptions may be price point. One of the real joys of the 110 is how affordable it has been for a kids first hunting knife.

Good Thoughts.
God bless,
 
I think that there is a lot of merit in your thoughts. I believe that the most potential for a genisis in this line is the eco-lite series. One forum member here has shown the simple beauty of a drop point 112 paperstone combination. I believe that Buck could morph this line to a product with more broad appeal to the general consumer. The marketing could point at the history that the product evolved from. I would like to see Buck go in this direction with the Eco-lite line, I think it would be a sure winner.
 
Hogger, the work of Sitflyer and Jared definitely are shaping my thinking to be sure. IMO, their stuff points the way forward.

I should say, that another influence for me has been in reading through old catalogs of various manufacturers, especially of fixed blade hunting knives. One of the conclusions I take away from that is how much variation there has been among blade profiles for hunting, skinning, fighting and utility knives. As that as a backdrop, it's sort of odd to think that one of the most famous hunting knives off all time might have it's blade profile frozen in time, reflecting the tastes circa 1965. The same could be said of brass and ebony, as much as love that combination. The tastes of the market have changed and visiting the Buck web site just depresses the heck out of me. The must be up to 2000 different styles of lockbacks, none of which are in anyway reflective of the Buck look and any of which could have been produced by any number of manufacturers.

Their really ought to be a way to make a bridge from the best of Buck's heritage to the current tastes.

Hurrah for Sitflyer and Jared for making knives that move in that direction.
 
Some very valid points here.
I like a DP 110 style knife for EDC, as the blade width of a 110 is much to my liking.
I've yet to own a stainless steel blade of such and am looking quite forward to the BCCI Club knives coming in.

One thing I think we must consider (we've seen this with request for BG-42) is even if there's 10 or 20 or 30 yays and no neighs towards such a thing, a company takes a big risk when planning to market to millions.
It is important for us folks to post our wants here I think, as I'm sure Big Brother is watching, but we can't expect Buck to choose such a path from our input alone.
They have my vote though.
Until then, you might have to find a Maker/Modder who can help you ;)
 
The 55 is smaller than the 501. It is the same size as the 503.
501,424,444,484 are all the same size blade.
 
I've often wondered, for instance with the 501 why the same blade with different # stamps. But this creates a different knife, not just another version. Which from a marketing view I could see a new knife sounding more appealing then just another version. More than one way to skin a cat. Just use a Buck when you do it. Hey that would'a been good for wonna 110's Daves slogan threads. ;-)
 
I just heard or read somewhere that the 110 is still Buck's biggest seller. I like the shape of the 110 clip point blade. I have altered a model 560 to meet my requirements for a "modern" 110. First I skinnied up the Ti handles so that total knife thickness is 3/8" instead of 1/2". Next I added a thumbstud to make it a one hand opener. Lastly I drilled and tapped the handle to accept a pocket clip. Oh and I installed a custom Haynes Stellite 6-K blade. The lightened Ti knife weighs 119gm. The brass and wood model weighs 209gm. The knife could be further lightened by skeletonizing the handle, but I have enough projects for now.
 
the 110. no changes from 50 years ago, except an updated blade steel. i think the blade design can handle a S90V or even a ZDP 189. with those steels could the price stay below $60?
 
Jared,

I hope, as much as is possible, this thread isn't about what I want other to than to see the last American knife company I give a darn about to keep it's place. I know that I can get whatever I can dream up by dipping into the world of customs. That's not the issue. The issue I'm trying to raise, is why Buck appears to be loosing shelf space at retail outlets (that I can find and see) and if there is anything that the company that legitimized the locking folder can do to reverse that trend.

IMO, introducing another 3 or 4 lines of locking folders isn't going to do the trick. That just smells like a company groping in the dark for an identity. It some sense, it shows that at least Buck understands that the clip point lines, heavy weight and "old-fashioned" look of the classic 110 and 112 aren't connecting with the average modern buyer. That's a good first step.

But, I don't see the current shotgun approach of throwing a bunch of new designs at the wall in the hopes that something, dear land please anything, will stick.

Only one company in the entire world makes "the Buck knife" and that's Buck. It would be pretty straight-forward to take "the Buck knife" (the 110 and 112) and extend it to a family of knives that would give modern buyers exactly what they want (lighter weight, drop point blades, choices of blade materials) while having something that only Buck can deliver - the opportunity to buy "the Buck knife".
 
Pinnah, I agree with the above. I think they are doing some of what you say right now.
It looks like Buck is doing that with there Vantages, different handle materials, different steels, DP blade.....
I think people that like the lockbacks often prefer the classic styling over modern, and possibly that's the reason they've stayed with clips.
There's not much more we can do except say "We Want!" If theres a market, a smart company will produce, and Buck has proven they know what they are doing.
I've seen more varieties of their product appearing in the two retail store (way up here in Canada eh) than used to be which is good I guess :)
 
humm my two centavos
the knife was know as the folding hunter and while a great design it had some quality issues
buck twiked them out and the 110 was made the best seller by ---- construction and blue color workers
hunter for sure buought the knife but it was the former that made it
the 112 come about to meet the us navy blade leanth restrictions
there are lots of knives that the folding hunter blade fits!!!
426
560
186
and quite a few others!
so the 110 while not shareing its name is a estensive offering !
and there are new steels other then the 420hc
i belive that a s60v is in the offering
buck dont like to mess with what works
and to make any changes requires much more then the hard ware
still
i can see some of the OP's points ... i jest wanted to point out that in
a round about way the folding humter does have lots of brothers ...
 
I think I'll go get a couple of 110's and a couple of 112's before all of these changes are made. I've always thought of the 110/112 as true no frills well made bulletproof working knives. Made In The USA. I would not change a thing.
 
I say leave the whole knife alone except maybe offer a version with a pocketclip. If not a pocket clip, an option of ordering one with a lanyared hole just like you have the option of now ordering one with fingergrooves. On my old bucklite, I added a pocketclip by just screwing into the lanyard hole.
A lanyard hole option for me would allow me to add a pocket clip if I wanted or hook to pants when out fishing in water, or hook around my neck rock climbing.
Pocket clips are popular now, i think a good portion of people who are 110/112 fans would be ordering one with that option. I think a 110/112 with fingergrooves, lanyard hole and or pocketclip and a thumbstud would give you the best of today, with the wood and brass styling of a classic.
 
Just to be clear, I wouldn't change the original 110 and 112. The only thing I'm suggesting is is extending the name "110" to include several variants.

In a real sense, they're already doing this with the Ecolite 110 and 112.
 
Just to be clear, I wouldn't change the original 110 and 112. The only thing I'm suggesting is is extending the name "110" to include several variants.

In a real sense, they're already doing this with the Ecolite 110 and 112.


And in a real sense, I felt that was wrong from the start. Both of those belonged more in the Bucklite family (IMHO) and should have been given their own number such as has been done before. There have been both versions of the 111, the 189 and the 560 to name a few, that were variants of the 110 but were given there own identity.

I see no need at all to dilute (or polute?) the 110 identity by adding innumerable variants with the same number. What's the point?

I feel, just leave the 110 alone as the flagship, it needs no bells and whistles or embelishments to sell as has been proved.. Add all the variants that you want but give them their own separate identity so they can live or die on their own.
 
Last edited:
Pd has a good point, and that's sort of what they've done. It is convenient for instance with the 560 you know with out a doubt what it is by the #.
 
I see no need at all to dilute (or polute?) the 110 identity by adding innumerable variants with the same number. What's the point?

Dave, I can understand the hesitancy. The primary point of my proposal is to re-establish the recognizability and desireability of both the Buck 110 (as a family) and Buck as a brand for a new generation.

Here's an example. Was at a church breakfast this am and chatting with one of the young guys in the church who works in the trades. He had shown me a new box plane he got that cost him over $200, so he's a bit of an old school tool guy. He carries a $60 tactical made by some tool company whose name escapes me. This guy grew up in the Adirondaks and Vermont in a family that hunts. When he showed me the plane earlier this weekend, I told him I had a knife to show him.

So this morning, I pulled my 112 and showed it to him. His response bears on this discussion.

"That's beautiful. What is that thing, dude?"

My sense is that (other than collectors of traditionsls), the Buck 110 and112 are practically unknown by guys under the age of 40. I suspect that's linked to the what I see in the loss of retail space in stores. For the company that started the locking folder, that's a travesty, and really poor brand management, IMO.

I think 110 & 112 should be for Buck as F-150 & F-250 are for Ford. There is a huge number of variants to the F-150, but they're all instantly recognizable as F-150s and Ford is stronger as a brand and sells more Explorers because of the branding of the F-150 family. A more broadly defined family of 110/112s could reestablish brand recognition among younger buyers who aren't going to go for brass and clip blades. At least IMO.
 
Back
Top