Experienced Forgers: help me spend my money

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rwn2000

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Jan 6, 2003
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I finally got an anvil around Christmas and I've been playing around with it off and on since then. It is a 75 pound NC Tool Big Face Anvil. I like beating on hot steel so it's time to upgrade my current forging tools, specifically hammers and tongs.

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This is my current set-up: a 4lb engineers hammer (from work), a 2.5 lb drilling hammer from HF, and a 3lb cross pein from HB. The "tongs" are a pair of HF linesman pliers that i ground a little off each jaw so they'd grip a piece of flat bar better. The drilling hammer with it's short handle seems to work the best for me right now.

I don't see myself forging any massive blades, at least not until I get a bigger anvil. At some point, I would like to try an integral but my skills are nowhere near ready for that yet. My hammer/tong budget is $150. How should i spend it?

https://www.blacksmithsdepot.com/page.php?theLocation=/Resources/Product/Hammers.xml

https://www.blacksmithsdepot.com/page.php?theLocation=/Resources/Product/Hammers/Czech_Hammer.xml/ I'm thinking about the 800g Swed/1000g Czech hammer combo for $35 and maybe a 1500g French Hammer for $45.

On tongs, I have no idea what I need. the blade tongs look like they would work for most of what i would be doing but not if i forge anything from round stock.
https://www.blacksmithsdepot.com/page.php?theLocation=/Resources/Product/Tongs_and_Pliers.xml
http://www.usaknifemaker.com/tongs-14-p-3648.html USA knifemaker has these for a good price but I'm not sure if I could shape them to work for me.

thanks for your help.

randy

Oh yeah, if I buy a French hammer, are you going to make fun of me like you do Rick? :)
 
To call myself an "experienced forger" would be correct. Calling myself a bladesmith would be pushing it. IIRC the Blacksmith depot has a set of 3 Wolf tongs for 100.00. That would be one heck of a starting point. They also have great hammers there. Take it from me. Do not get the biggest hammer. It really cuts down on the fun factor when your arm starts shaking because you chose to heavy. I have a 4lb and a 2.2lb. The 4lb one works for heavy hitting, the 2.2 is used for the bevels and such. This is just what I use. The more experienced smiths will chime in on this I am sure. If price is an issue for the tongs. take a welder and weld some steel tubing to your pliers. It will work until you can get the set you want. You could also make your own. Its a great way of making what YOU want in a pair of tongs. Just my thoughts.
 
http://gstongs.com/

I'm not experienced. But. I've taken several lessons from A C Richards and finding the right tongs was the most critical thing for me. For your $150 you could get 2 pair of blade tongs and one Japanese cutler hammer from Glen at GS Tongs. I am placing an order for 3 pair and one hammer today after MUCH research and high recommendations about Glen's tongs.
 
I also fall under the 'experienced but not good' category — maybe that means I should keep my mouth shut, but here it goes anyway.
In addition to your cross peen, I don't think you can go wrong with your choice of sweedish and french hammers. Those are my favorite hammers and also the favorite hammers of some friends of mine who are fantastic smiths (like this guy: http://www.persimmonmetals.com/). But in the end it's a personal choice.
As for tongs, I can't imagine what life was like before box-jaw tongs. The advice that I got was to make my own tongs both for practice and to get in the habit of making your own tools (and for street-cred). Box-jaw tongs are a bit tricky to make but they are worth it a hundred times over. Make a pair for every size stock you use.

- Chris
 
Well I will try and give my take on hammers and tongs. As for hammers go, the hammers you have will work fine. A rule of thumb I was always taught was for hammer to anvil weight ratio, ideally you want about a 50:1 hammer weight to anvil weight ratio so this means your 75 pound anvil the max ideal hammer weight you should be using is a 1.5 pound. Now this is just a rule of thumb, I have forged on that same model farrier anvil you have and using a 4 pound hammer on it is very inefficient do to the weight ratio. The reason I mention this is because the less efficient your forging goes the less fun you will have. I know a fair amount of folks that use the Czech hammers and like them and at $35 for 2 hammers I would say go for it. You will find you will need different style hammers for different jobs. Now if you ask what I use, I use rounding hammers because that is what I use for work as a farrier. The hammer weight I use most when forging blades is a 2.5 pound.

As for tongs the most used tong when I am using tongs for forging blades is a wolf jaw, I could not find the tong I use and don't recall the maker so I will look when I go to the smithy. I really like the wolf jaw tongs I have because I can hold stock paper thin up to 3/4" easily and can hold flat, round, and square stock. The tongs you listed from USA Knifemaker are referred to as farrier tongs, I like them because I use them for work all day long but they are only good for holding the size flat stock they are designated for and I have not seen a pair less than 1/4" so if your working stock thinner like 1/8" they won't hold well at all unless you resize the tongs yourself to fit the stock you wish to use.


Hope this helps
 
I'm with Mike as far as the hammers go. You've got plenty of hammers right now however if you see some hammer heads at second hand stores there always worth purchasing even if you don't need them. That's probably why I have so many now. I would suggest a couple pair of tongs and some version of a Godzilla would make things go a lot easier. Even a homemade version would come in handy. Most of what you need is just practice then you'll be able to decided what it is you really need.
 
Thanks for the info, guys. Based on the suggestions above, I came up with 2 options:

1. Blacksmith depot: 800g Swedish/ 1000g Czech hammer ($35), 1500g French hammer ($45), 400mm wolf jaw tongs ($35) and 3/4" blade tongs ($40); total $155 plus shipping

2. http://gstongs.com/ : 3/4" blade tongs ($33), 3/16" flat tongs($33), 2.75lb hammer ($70), overseas shipping ($23) ;total $156

Do these sound like good options to you guys?

Now i just need to decide.


Raymond posted while I was typing this. I may drop the french hammer, order from Blacksmith depot and actually come in under budget, for once.

I've been thinking about a godzilla type tool. I need to take some measurements off my anvil. print off a pic of godzilla and go talk to my uncle, the retired machinist.
thanks again for the info,

randy
 
Last edited:
rwn2000 said:
Thanks for the info, guys


Raymond posted while I was typing this. I may drop the french hammer, order from Blacksmith depot and actually come in under budget, for once.

I've been thinking about a godzilla type tool. I need to take some measurements off my anvil. print off a pic of godzilla and go talk to my uncle, the retired machinist.
thanks again for the info,

randy
Click to expand...

Randy, I bought me a French hammer a few years ago. I never did care for it. I did a forging demo in Texas a few days ago using strange tools. The thing I missed the most was Godzilla. Try to make Godzilla fit snug in the hardy hole but not so tight you have to beat it out with a hammer. It sure has made a huge difference in my forging skills.
 
I would seriously consider not investing too much in hammers until you figure out how much you're really into forging. By that I don't mean "I like pounding on metal" or even "I forge all knives to rough profile". It's only when you become very serious about efficient movement of metal and advanced technique that you can really make a decision on what type of hammer is ideal for you.

I dislike the swedish hammers, and always prefered a german short or nordic style cross peen. I wad always fond of the "idea" of angle peen hammers, but after spending time with Brian Brazael he's convinced me how unsuitable a peen is for 99% of proper forging, and that the large Brazael style rounding hammers ultimately have the most "dies" of any hammer, which is really what its all about.

Anyway, it gets pretty esoteric, and is of course, highly subjective, but I believe you'd be better off spending your money on a spring fuller, and a flatter. Otherwise youre liable to spend a year not realizing what those tools can do for you.


Just my opinion.
 
Just wanted to add that the wolf jaws are one of my most used tongs also, they're a must have.
 
I always made all my own tongs except for what I pick up at flea markets but Ive heard lots of good about GS Tongs for sure..Hammers are a very personal thing to blacksmiths..I prefer a short stubbier hammer like a hofi or Tom Clark style myself..A big long hammer tends to twist in your hands...
Most importantly refine your forging technique..If you cant forge most of the day without your arm killing you then your doing something wrong..A far as fuller tools I prefer some sort of guillotine tool overall..Ive got spring fullers too but a good guillotine tool gives you options..Your not just stuck with one die..you can make any number of dies for a guillotine..Heres the one I made..the dies are 3" wide by 3/8" thick..Thats a 200 pound anvil its setting on..
Picture292-1.jpg

With a guillotine tool you can also take out the bottom die and swage on side only..
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Nice guillotine and nice Fisher Kentucky. You point is absolutely valid, and I agree. Spring fullers are just cheap and easy to start with. They're also super easy to make a ton of them, just like dies, but I'm assuming the dude doesn't want to start with forging or fabbing tools. Still, plenty of options for buying a guillotine if its in the budget.
 
I'm too old and too un-cool to ever be called "dude" :) I found an engineer hammer head (no handle) in a junk box at work yesterday. Like Raymond said, I couldn't pass that up. 45 minutes with a cutoff wheel, a new handle and I turned it into a straight peen:
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Stacy posted a few weeks ago about making a bottom fuller out of 1" round stock by upsetting the end to fit the hardie hole, then bending it flat over the anvil face. Attempt #1 was a lesson in how NOT to do it, but Attempt #2 is looking better. I should finish it tomorrow after i get a fresh propane tank.

I do have prior experience swinging a hammer. I worked on survey crews for 15 years setting R/W monuments with 36" rebars and a 4 pound hammer. If you can't drive them straight, it makes for a LONG day. It's not teh same thing but that muscle memory can't hurt. Right now I can be at the forge for about 2 hours and then take a break. My arm isn't sore, just time for a break.

randy
 
The only "good" hammer is a POWER hammer, or so says my poor right elbow.:D
 
What'd you decide on for tongs n a hammer?

I had to reload my paypal account so won't order mine from Glenn till next week.
I'm getting the small hammer as I have plenty of bigger hammers.
 
Brian, I ordered a pair of wolf jaw tongs, blade tongs and the two smaller hammers from Blacksmith depot. I really like the look of Glenn's hammers and may get one in the future after I get more forging time in. If I tell my wife I bought a $70 hammer, there may be bloodshed, most likely mine. :)

randy
 
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