Experiences with MT Microbar lock requested

[cpirtle]

Anyone had any experience with this lock, good or bad?

Is it just another liner lock?

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[Dr.Lathe]

I've had NO trouble with the lock bars on ANY of my MT's. Even the DA's stay in adjustment after MUCH use. If anything, they tend to lock up too tight rather than not enough. It feel it's a great design putting steel against steel. The only downside is the possibility of getting debris between the arm and frame making closing the knife a problem...just like with a liner lock. I also carry a fixed blade for DIRTY jobs anyway

Neil

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Talonite......Stellite
Hand Made Knives..High Tech Materials
blackwoodknives.com

 

[Joe Talmadge]

There've been a few reports of Microbar locks failing. One of them, ironically, came a couple days after a debate about the newer lock formats (axis vs microbar). One of the Microtech proponents had a failure, in exactly one of the situations we'd thought could make it fail.

My current thinking, which is still fluid: the Microbar isn't a step up from the liner lock; the question is, is it a step down? It certainly can't touch the axis. MY OPINION, NOT SOME UNIVERSAL TRUTH.

Joe

 

[Pergatory]

While being fundamentally the same, the microbar on the microtech allows for a deeper angle at the lock/blade junction. This is an improvement over the linerlock, and not just an opinion. (in my opinion, of course)

 

[medusaoblongata]

I don't have extensive experience with a microbar, just played with one for a few minutes. Due to the low complaint rate and the way it seems to work, I think it is a step up from the linerlock, but a small one. It still doesn't approach a framelock, and can't touch an Axis lock. Still better than a liner lock, IMO.

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Jason aka medusaoblongata
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"Is not giving a need? Is not receiving mercy?" - Thus Spoke Zarathustra
"Cutting his throat is only a momentary pleasure and is bound to get you talked about." - Lazarus Long
"Knowledge is not made for understanding; it is made for cutting." - Michel Foucault

 

[cpirtle]

I have/had given up on MT manuals (other than my LCC) because I'm not happy with liner locks, too many better options.

I have a Kestrel Auto and love it but was thinking about a manual version as well.

I think I'll stick with the MOD plunge, rolling locks and axis locks in my manuals.

Thanks for the info

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[Knife Fumbler]

I had a SOCOM Elite with a microbar.
Worked great.
The reliability and ease of use isn't any better than a good liner lock, the only advantage is there's no flex in the bar and the bar is stronger than a liner.
Lots of people have blown up those few occassions where the lock failed just because they're all too ready to reject a design that resembles an older one.
I'm sure if you could get the statistics on failure rate of any manufacturer's liner lock and compare it to the microbar, the microbar would have a slightly higher safety rate.

That's all my opinion of course.
I have owned a BM 710 and the axis lock IMO beats every other kind of lock in reliability and ease of use.
If you're asking if the axis is stronger than a microbar it just doesn't matter because the force it would use to break it is just more than you would ever really encounter in real life.


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~Fumbler
the crazied knife weilding Sarah McLachlan fan =)

 

[Commodorefirst]

Here is a thread of mine from the archives.

http://www.bladeforums.com/ubb/Forum64/HTML/002311.html

The blade was fixed by MT and they also fixed a mini socom I bought NIB just after this incident. The Elite is still working fine, however, the mini socom started popping closed again with light spine taps one month after it was repaired. (maybe opened only 20-30 times, never snapped or abused.)
I was frustrated. I could pop the mini open on my forearm by striking it on its upper spine. If I wanted a slipjoint I would have bought one.
I have now sold all of my mini socoms and currently only have Socom elites and LCCs. All of them are working good, but as Joe T. states and understands, I have been buying more axis locks lately.

I love the design of the MT elite. Great blade shape and fits my hand well. But I am now always wondering in the back of my mind. Will it fail again?

Food for your thought. I Don't trust the minis, I trust the Elite 1/2 way and the LCC fully - so far.

[This message has been edited by Commodorefirst (edited 06-06-2001).]

 

[Bart student]

I always wondered what kept the microbar from eating itself in the alu? There is a pivot, and if pressure applied, I think alu wears away rather fast in contact with hard steel.

But that aside, my opinions on locks:

1. for strong locks or ultimate reliability, get a fixed blade and stop whining about locks failing !

2. Most locks excecuted by good companies will not fail if you use the knife for what is it ment to do. And that does not included spinewhacking.

3. All locks can fail, and will fail if you make the circumstances.. rolling locks are awsome in shear power, but when repeatedly soft hitting (the the rolling lock will disengage due to the pressure and vibration - the only soft spot in the rolling lock for all I care). Axis will fail if not cleaned regularly and in harsh use. I would go with an axis in the jungle, because it doesn't take much to block the bar. Liners are vulnerable too for debris, but only when disengaging - a plus of liners ove axis locks !.

Every lock which isn't a fixed blade, has a soft spot. There is more to a lock then just strength...
stability in rough circumstances
stability over time when using
reliability in dirty surroundings
Ease of manufactering
Cost of production
How it looks when locked/unlocked
Ease of opeating
...

It all depends where you put you priorities.
Lockbacks are always overlooked, and the newest lock is always the best...

If you want my vote :
1. Fixed blade 100%
2. Rolling lock 50 %
3. Axis lock 49 %
4. Arclock 48 %
5. Microbar 45 %
6. Lockback 40 %
7. Linerlock 35 %

the percentages mean my vote for overall usabiliy and stability.

Greetz, Bart.



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"If the world wouldn't SUCK, we'd all fall off !
You can E-mail me at bart.weijs@student.kuleuven.ac.be any
time....guaranteed reply !


Member of the BKS

<A HREF="http://www.student.kuleuven.ac.be/~m9710483/index.html" TARGET=_blank>My
knife-page</A>

 

[Commodorefirst]

Bart, good list of % with regards to locks, however try carrying a 3.5-4" fixed blade in the suburbs and see how long you would "survive" without concerns from the sheeple.

I agree... I always prefer a fixed blade for serious work, however for keeping a low profile the folders are better. Even with a 4" fixed blade you still have to deal with 8-9 inches of overall length.

Much the same for guns, I would generally prefer a rifle or shotgun to carrying a pistol, but ergonomics and practicality apply.

I would probably list the axis, rolling, and arc locks at 75% of a fixed. Then the rest where you have them. In my very humble opinion.

Cheers, Wade

 

[cpirtle]

I think you guys are leaving out a very good lock in your lists.

Mine list on a 1-10, 10 being a fixed blade would be:

8 Rolling Lock
7.99 Axis lock
7.95 Plunge lock

Okay so basically what I'm saying is that for all intensive purposes I trust the plunge lock on my manual MOD as much as my REKAT's or BM Axis's.

I'm sure many would dis-agree but MOD makes a heck of a plunge lock.

 

[Commodorefirst]

Got a MK II on order. Can't wait. So You like your MOD huh? lol lol

No experience with this lock. Heard good things with the plunge lock. Had to see for myself.

 

[cpirtle]

If you like a hard core tactical, you'll love this one!

I have the CQD MKII, fell in love instantly. So I ordered the Full sized CQD, it's a behemoth, I sent it back because I just can't spend that kind of money on a knife that will sit in the drawer, just too big for me.

The MKII is currently my favorite folder followed by all of my REKAT's and my LCC is in there somehwere.

I may just get a MKII auto next. First knife I've truly gotten excited over in a long time.... you know that feeling

 

[mgeoffriau]

No doubt about it, the plunge lock is mighty strong. Plus the safety lock which blocks you from accidentally releasing it, it's just about as secure a system as there is. Great knife too. Was pretty tight at first, but it's really getting smooth now (and still no blade play).

 

[Knife Fumbler]

Not to start anything bad, but you guys would rate the rolling lock over the axis?
Sure the rolling lock can handle 1000 some odd pounds (not sure what that converts to as torque), but I dont think it';s a better design than the axis.

-The axis is ambidextrous.
-The axis is less complex than the rolling lock. (less links=less room for failure)
-The axis is just easier to operate (IMO).
-Your finger doesn't rest on the axis lock when you grip the handle. When you grip a rolling lock knife your index finger rests right on top of the button.
-If you've taken apart a rolling lock you can see how much of the bar actually engages the tang.
It's very little, maybe 2mm at most. With the axis the entire bar rests behind the tang.

Well that's all my opinion.
Tell me why you like the rolling lock more than the axis, I'm interested.

Ohh yeah, I'm not sure, haven't done my research, but I don't think the components of the rolling lock are all stainless.
The carnivore cub I had developed rust on the moving parts of the lock when all it did was sit in my drawer.
I had other knives too and none of them rusted in the same condition.

I'm not dissing REKAT. Lock the knife designs and the concept of the rolling lock. I just dont think it's any better than the axis.

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~Fumbler
the crazied knife weilding Sarah McLachlan fan =)

 

[OwenM]

Surprising that noone has mentioned the integral or "frame" lock.
I have found that I prefer it over all others including the Axis lock (I have owned several Axis lock knives, and am very impressed with it, too, btw).
I only have two examples to go on, but the frame lock offers the greatest combination of reliability, strength, and ease of cleaning, IMO. It is not ambidextrous like the Axis, however.

Sorry to drag this further OT, but my .02 were burning a hole in my pocket

edit:
KnifeFumbler,
I have handled all of one Rolling Lock knife-a Pioneer II-and my impression of it was very positive. Phenomenal lock-up, equal to my small Sebenza, and superior to any of my Axis locks. Very confidence-inspiring.

[This message has been edited by OwenM (edited 06-07-2001).]

 

[cpirtle]

Knife Fumbler, yes I would rate the Rolling Lock over the Axis, but they are both very strong. I also like the design of the RL better.

I have 5 knives with the Rolling lock and 1 more due to be delivered today or tomorrow.(

) Not only do I like the lock better I like the knives better as well. I have many BM's and the REKAT's are just better knives and are more apealing IMO.

- Yes, the Axis is Ambidextrious -- I don't care, I'm right handed.

- I have had both apart and do not think that the RL is complex at all. With the RL if the spring broke (the only thing likely to happen in either design really) the lock would still function perfectly.

- That whole argument that your finger rests on the slide is BS, because if you own a REKAT you know how far you have to slide the lock to disengage it, at least 3/8" to 1/2". It's not like a button lock where you could accidentally disengage.

- As for the amount of steel engaging the tang, we had a discussion on this in the REKAT Forum, the full strength on the lock is on the tang of the knife at all stages of the lock releasing and engaging because of the nature of the design. Basically, at just about any given point in the locks motion, you would have to shear through the entire thickness of the lock bar to have a failure. (That's 3/16" of hardened bearing steel)

Most of the lock and pivots on the REKATS are bearing steel. They are not stainless although they have many of the properties of stainless, light oil occasionally is all they need, like most knives.

REKAT chose their steel for long life, durability and strength. Personally I've never had one rust.


Hope this helps clarify why I like to Rolling Lock. I like the design of the Axis almost as well just most of the BM's they have put it on don't appeal to me. The 710/705 is still the best knife in their line, IMHO.

BTW, if you don't want your Carni Cub anymore you can send it to me

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[This message has been edited by cpirtle (edited 06-07-2001).]

 

[Joe Talmadge]

I like the rolling lock too, but there are more reports of failure on those than there are for the axis, which overrides any theoretical appreciation for one design or the other.

Can someone describe how MOD's plunge lock works? Thanks!

 

[cpirtle]

All the hype aside, I cannot see a real world scenario where a properly made and maintained Axis, Rolling or plunge lock would fail, at least not in my "real world". I cannot say the same thing for any other lock I've used (except the Opinel style or Bali but I don't get into them). If I know I'm potentially risking a lock failure I'll use my Fallkniven F1.

I've never taken apart my MOD to see how it works but my impression is that it's the same thing that goes into their auto's with an additional safety slide that prevents you from accidentally pushing the button. The nice thing is that you don't always have to use the secondary safety, only put it on when you want it.

Looking at it closely from the outside, when the blade is in position the ~3/16 plunger extends behind the tang with a larger ~1/4" lock bar. Judging by how far the button pops out I'd say that the bar blocks 90% of the blades thickness. The secondary lock is a very smooth (at least on mine) slide on the top side of the handle that slide forward and blocks the plunger.

I think that if you were ever in a CQD situation the secondary lock would engage almost automatically because of the type of grip, but for EDC I only engage it if I think I'm putting it in a situation where I might accidentally push the button.

Take all that at face value, it's just my opinion.

This knife definately inspires confidence

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[Commodorefirst]

I still like the ambi features of the axis lock. So I personally like it better than the rolling lock. Strength difference? Who knows?