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Experiment time, wrapping it up.
- Thread starter jackknife
- Start date
Yeah, pretty true on most counts.
TOOL ABUSE- I remember even as a kid, my old man coming up in back of me, and giving me a good head slap saying "What are ya doing, bone head? That isn't the right tool." Factor in 30 years of machinist work, and I don't like to abuse tools. Everything has it's limits, guns, cars, tools. If your reaching a limit, feeling tool flexing, it's time to reach for another tool. In my case, the flat Sear's 4-way in my wallet lets me cheat. Like a ace or derringer up the sleeve, it lets me have a last ditch option. And it's a pretty good option. Weighting nothing more than a coin, being a single piece of hardened tool steel, it's pretty fool proof. I've leaned on it, pried with it, hammered on it, and it's still good to go. Best .99 cent item you can buy. I once had to get a very old and rusty phillips head wood screw out of a post to remove a metal sign. The small screw driver end on my Wenger SI was bending under the strain trying to break it free. My truck was a half mile away so the tool kit init was not immediately available. So I dug out my 4-way, got a good two handed grip on it with thumbs and sides of index fingers, and squeaking the whole way, thread by thread, I got it backed out. Minor pain in fingers, but it was done. So the Sear's keychain driver lets my little classic get away with being light for the job. Rusty license plate screws? The 4-way has it. Loose door jamb screws? THe 4-way has it. Prying up a paint can lid, Yeah, it's got it. Like the ace up the sleeve of the gambler, it's there if I need it.
EDC KNIFE CHOICE- Yeah, my Buck stockman was my be-all end-all pocket knife until the last year I was working, and then the peanut poked it's nose in there. The mighty little 'nut was my edc until my ostio arthris in my hands from turning wrenches and cranking on Bridgeport mill handles got to me and it became to small and fiddely to deal with. Now I'm EDC'ing a Northwoods stockman that Dan, (Silenthunterstudios) gifted me. Dan won't admit it, but I believe he had the knife modified for a very light pull on the blades for this old fart with bad fingers. The knife was supposedly sent back to have a broken spring fixed, but with the knife disassembled the springs got very light!
. So now it's my EDC probably for the rest of the time I have here, which at my age is up for questioning.
Dan is a great guy and a friend, so this knife has great sentimental value now. But…I will carry a SAK now and then. When I go flying off someplace, a SAK is what I mail to where I'll be staying. With the great Victorinox QA and engineering, I can still open a SAK with no problem. I've always held the Victorinox SAK's as the golden mean of what all the other knife companies should copy with quality and ergonomics. I've relied on Vic SAK's as my sole EDC carry from as fear different places as Key West Florida fishing trips to rafting on the Rogue River in Oregon, to touring Stonehenge in England and hiking in the Black Forest in Germany. 
EDC CARRY STLE- Yeah, guilty as charged. My keyring is my bat ring. It serves as a mounting system for the classic, flashlight, Bison capsule with aspirin and meds, and sometimes the Sear's 4-way is moved to it. It always hangs of my left side belt loop and is shoved in my left from pocket to hang just above the pocket bottom. My wallet is a repository of small tools that goes through airport security. My Trusty P-38, cut down EZE-LAP model L diamond hone, a couple of large paper clips for good quality springy wire, a large safety pin, and sometimes the Sear's 4-way. Oh, by the way, police handcuffs can be opened with a paper clip or the tweezers of a SAK. Since I never know what car/truck/motorcyle/scooter I'm going to be using that day until the last moment sometimes, my vehicle key of the day is carried separate.
HAND SIZE- Again, true. I'm not a big guy by any means, maybe about 5'9" now. Maybe about 165. Okay, okay, about 170 after thanksgiving and with the Christmas holiday coming up a bit weight gain. Boots size 10, gloves medium and then they are bit too long in the fingers sometimes. My hands are small enough that I am far more comfortable with the grip on a J frame Smith and Wesson the a K frame, and I can actually get a decent hold on the North American mini .22 revolvers. So a Case peanut or a Vic classic is not too small for me to handle well. And in fact, my EDC writing tool that is always in my pocket is a stub of a golf pencil. I like small. An obsession left over from my backpacking days is things have to be as small and light as possible and still work at their intended task. Monocular instead of a compact binocular. And I like pencils because they don't leak, don't go dry, go through the laundry with no problem, and can be scraped for the graphite that is a great dry lube for fine mechanisms in a pinch. A pencil is good enough for making a quick note on the little business caed size pad I keep in my wallet.
Sooo, what we have here is a huge case of YMMV! Yeah.
This message Corgi approved.
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Sooo, what we have here is a huge case of YMMV! Yeah.
This message Corgi approved.
Fenway the Chocolate Lab (aka the big block head) approves too.
Have a great Christmas, Carl.
Fenway on Pine Island by Pinnah, on FlickrOkay, here it is the 29th of December, and it's almost a month since I took the Vic classic off my keyring and made a dedicated effort to use the Leatherman Micra for a month. It's been interesting.
I will admit that the little Leatherman did everything I asked of it. It screwed and unscrewed, it opened some cold brew ski's that had non twist off caps. It opened mail, UPS and FEDEX boxes. It trimmed a boken finger nail and filed it smooth. All things that the classic could as well. It's still heavier than the classic, and as Dave pointed out, is more of a pocket tool than a keychain tool. And there boys and girls is the rub. I still think it's heavy, clunky, annoying to get at the tools, and generally I still don't like it.
so…
In his very nice letter that came with the Leatherman, Dave said I could give it away if I didn't like it. So I went to type a giveaway post to send this thing down the road. After all, I don't need a Sherman tank the size of a Volkswagen. If I'm gonna drive a small car, I'll get the VW and reap the rewards of the small car. So I composed in my head the post, and set about to type, fingers poised over the keyboard. Nothing happened.
Let me reiterate, I still don't like the micra, and will stick to my little Vic classic. But I find myself unable to type the giveaway post. Instead, I pick up the micra and look at it. It's still an ugly little square heavy pocket tool, that annoys me having to open it twice to get at a small knife blade or screw driver. Naaa, it's history. So I out it down and get ready to type, fingers once again poised over the keyboard. Again, I find myself hesitating. No typing gets done.
For some odd reason, I am hesitant to rid myself of this ugly little tool that although is annoying as heck, does work. No denying that. And it is a rugged little tool, built sturdy and will take more abuse than a Vic classic. So why am I unable to type a giveaway post?
The micro is almost the same size as the classic, and in the photo you can see how just the corners of the micra are bigger than the classic. It's the square shape that makes it seem bigger really. PLus the extra ounce and a half weight. So, even loose in the pocket, it's not really that much more to carry than the classic. Not really. But it still has the accursed 'inside' opening tools that make it needed to open twice to access one tool. If only it had the 'outside' tools like a Juice or squirt. And there is the new quandary!
I am not a multitool guy. I'm a dedicated pocket knife guy. If a pocket knife happens to have a few tools like a scout knife or basic SAK like a recruit or pioneer, then it's gravy for the potatoes. I like one and two layer SAK's for the few basic tools on hand. Most times I'm reaching into my pocket is for knife because I have to cut something. Once in a very great while, I have to deal with something coming loose, and a SAK or my Sear's keychain driver deals with it. I've never carried more than a two layer SAK most occasions. Scissor are handy sometimes. So I found myself actually looking at Leatherman tools, like the small juice and squirt. This is a first for me, as I've never been a fan of Leatherman stuff. By the tiny micra may have changed my outlook. I'm not sure just why, but something has occurred, because even though I still don't like the micra, I find myself drawn to it, to the extent that I can't bring myself to ship it off in a giveaway. Maybe since it's only annoying to open it to access the tools and knife blade, I may be getting used to it? Not really sure there. But I even have come to kind of like the chisel edge on the knife blade. Makes it faster and easier to touchup on the cut down Eze-Lap diamond hone in my wallet.
Now, after a month of using this annoying tool that has very little character or charm, I find myself still disliking it, but unable to get rid of it. Dave, I don't know what obscure New England mountain God's you used to put a spell on this thing, but I now curse and rave against them, as this tool has induced some sort of schizophrenia in my psyche. The micra has made me question the yin and the yang in an endless circle. "On the one hand…but on the other hand…"
So the jury is till out. I'm going to keep the micra around, and maybe even use it now and then. All I can say is, we'll see.
The classic setting on top of micra. Almost same outside dimensions.
The micra vs the classic with some cheating help of the Sear's 4-way. Smallest bit on 4-way has been filed to fit phillips screws better.
I will admit that the little Leatherman did everything I asked of it. It screwed and unscrewed, it opened some cold brew ski's that had non twist off caps. It opened mail, UPS and FEDEX boxes. It trimmed a boken finger nail and filed it smooth. All things that the classic could as well. It's still heavier than the classic, and as Dave pointed out, is more of a pocket tool than a keychain tool. And there boys and girls is the rub. I still think it's heavy, clunky, annoying to get at the tools, and generally I still don't like it.
so…
In his very nice letter that came with the Leatherman, Dave said I could give it away if I didn't like it. So I went to type a giveaway post to send this thing down the road. After all, I don't need a Sherman tank the size of a Volkswagen. If I'm gonna drive a small car, I'll get the VW and reap the rewards of the small car. So I composed in my head the post, and set about to type, fingers poised over the keyboard. Nothing happened.
Let me reiterate, I still don't like the micra, and will stick to my little Vic classic. But I find myself unable to type the giveaway post. Instead, I pick up the micra and look at it. It's still an ugly little square heavy pocket tool, that annoys me having to open it twice to get at a small knife blade or screw driver. Naaa, it's history. So I out it down and get ready to type, fingers once again poised over the keyboard. Again, I find myself hesitating. No typing gets done.
For some odd reason, I am hesitant to rid myself of this ugly little tool that although is annoying as heck, does work. No denying that. And it is a rugged little tool, built sturdy and will take more abuse than a Vic classic. So why am I unable to type a giveaway post?
The micro is almost the same size as the classic, and in the photo you can see how just the corners of the micra are bigger than the classic. It's the square shape that makes it seem bigger really. PLus the extra ounce and a half weight. So, even loose in the pocket, it's not really that much more to carry than the classic. Not really. But it still has the accursed 'inside' opening tools that make it needed to open twice to access one tool. If only it had the 'outside' tools like a Juice or squirt. And there is the new quandary!
I am not a multitool guy. I'm a dedicated pocket knife guy. If a pocket knife happens to have a few tools like a scout knife or basic SAK like a recruit or pioneer, then it's gravy for the potatoes. I like one and two layer SAK's for the few basic tools on hand. Most times I'm reaching into my pocket is for knife because I have to cut something. Once in a very great while, I have to deal with something coming loose, and a SAK or my Sear's keychain driver deals with it. I've never carried more than a two layer SAK most occasions. Scissor are handy sometimes. So I found myself actually looking at Leatherman tools, like the small juice and squirt. This is a first for me, as I've never been a fan of Leatherman stuff. By the tiny micra may have changed my outlook. I'm not sure just why, but something has occurred, because even though I still don't like the micra, I find myself drawn to it, to the extent that I can't bring myself to ship it off in a giveaway. Maybe since it's only annoying to open it to access the tools and knife blade, I may be getting used to it? Not really sure there. But I even have come to kind of like the chisel edge on the knife blade. Makes it faster and easier to touchup on the cut down Eze-Lap diamond hone in my wallet.
Now, after a month of using this annoying tool that has very little character or charm, I find myself still disliking it, but unable to get rid of it. Dave, I don't know what obscure New England mountain God's you used to put a spell on this thing, but I now curse and rave against them, as this tool has induced some sort of schizophrenia in my psyche. The micra has made me question the yin and the yang in an endless circle. "On the one hand…but on the other hand…"
So the jury is till out. I'm going to keep the micra around, and maybe even use it now and then. All I can say is, we'll see.
The classic setting on top of micra. Almost same outside dimensions.
The micra vs the classic with some cheating help of the Sear's 4-way. Smallest bit on 4-way has been filed to fit phillips screws better.
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I would like the Micra IF it came with pliers in lieu of the scissors. I'd like it a whole lot more if Leatherman would just bring back the Mini-Tool.
Grateful
Gold Member
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- Oct 5, 2002
- Messages
- 4,527
It's good to try new things once in a while. Having tried both I can say the Classic is the better choice for me and that the Micra is a quality tool that will serve some folks very well. I must admit Carl that I am a little surprised that you have in some way connected with the Micra. When you started the experiment I did not think that you would because it is so different from the Classic.
Jim
Jim
You really gave a trial. But with a Squirt on hand, I think my conclusion would parallel yours: for me a knife with tools is better than a multitool with a blade.
Just can't abide the feel of the things, and anything you carry in a pocket is above all a tactile item, whatever its utility.
Just can't abide the feel of the things, and anything you carry in a pocket is above all a tactile item, whatever its utility.
I'm a bit surprised as well, since as I say, I still don't like the micra. It's still an ugly little piece of hardware, and if I actually go to use it like Dave does, with the knife blade out and the tool unfolded, it feels like some industrial thing that is all corners and edges. Very uncomfortable to use, as well as awkward. When I started the one month trial, I fully expected to be able to just give the thing away when done. I still am inclined to give it away, but I find myself hesitating for no reason I can explain. I don't like it, and I won't be carrying it, my classic is back on my keyring. My Northwoods stockman is a fixture in my right hand pocket, so the micra is not going in there.
I'm not sure what I am gong to do with it. Maybe I'll give it away in the future. I'm just not sure right now. It's like my friend Wayne's SIG. About 15 years ago, Wayne bought a SIG 9mm. I don't know why, he had other guns way nicer. It's ugly, square, corners and angles and such. But Wayne went on a jazz on figuring how reliable the thing was. He didn't clean it, ever. He'd buy the cheapest junk 9mm ammo at the gunshshows, like Yugoslav or Philippine military stuff in green boxes. After a while it filled with black sludge. We'd go to the range and set out stuff on the shooting bench, and I'd pick up his gun and run my finger in the locked open slide by the chamber, and there would be black greasy junk when I took my finger out. Wayne out a few thousand rounds through that gun before he started getting malfunctions. Thousands during a lng cold winter. Then he took it down field stripped it and wiped off the slide rails and brushed out the chamber, and it was fine. I still think SIG's are ugly guns, and I'll never loose my love of pinned barrel era Smith and Wesson revolvers. But I have to admit the SIG works. It's kind of like that. I dislike the Leathermans, and still think they are crude tools that are a solution to a non existent problem. But I have to admit, for the last month, the tiny Leatherman did everything I needed of it. Even though it was a PITA to use.
Maybe Karen will drop it in her purse as a standby for when we go "downtown" and need gov't buildings admit-able stuff.
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Grateful
Gold Member
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I hear ya, when something works that goes along way even if it is missing the type of style that I appreciate. I seem to have similar taste as you because not only have you introduced me to the Classic and the Craftsman 4 way screwdriver buy Peanuts, Sodbusters and Opinels.
Bottom line is that whether you choose a Classic or a Micra these small tools are very useful for life's little daily chores. Good work with the experiment. I have really enjoyed reading this thread.
Jim
Bottom line is that whether you choose a Classic or a Micra these small tools are very useful for life's little daily chores. Good work with the experiment. I have really enjoyed reading this thread.
Jim
Very often we don't see eye to eye with others. That is what makes us humans. The individual in us sometimes makes us see things a bit different than another person. Neither of us may be right or wrong, just expressing what works for us. Or as we say on the 'net; YMMV.
I have had some disagreements with Dave(Pinnah) on multitools. Dave and I have not seen eye to eye at all on the subject of the 58mm SAK's. So Dave, unexpectedly to me, has made an outstanding gesture. He's sent me a Leatherman Micra to try. And I, in the spirit of agreeing to disagree, have made decision to try this tool out with an open mind. I have done what I didn't think I ever would. I have taken off the Victorinox classic from my keyring, and replaced it with the Micra. It has been in use now for about two weeks, and I am giving it a full month. I figure the first two weeks is just getting used to the weird layout of the thing.
First impressions are mixed. The scissors, which is the main tool all else is set up around, is beefier than the Victorinox scissors. Okay, if you are into scissors. They function okay, but are not as precision as the Vic scissors. They both cut well on material up to medium cardboard like matchbook covers, but the Leatherman scissors will cut better than the Vic when the material gets thicker. Both do well on cloth like denim.
All of the tools on the Victorinox are 'external' for lack of a better way to describe it. With the micra, all the tools are 'internal' and you need to pull open the tool to access the other tools down in the body cavity. Knife blade, screw driver, whatever, it takes more movements to get at the micra tools. If I want the small screw driver on the classic, I just pull it out. It I want the knife blade to cut a bit of twine, I just pull it out. With the micra you have to pull open the whole tool, find the blade, pull that open, and maybe close the tool or leave it open as you wish.
The Leatherman is heavier built, and has a more industrial feel. The Victorinox is smoother, more refined and easy to use. My keyring feels noticeable heavier with the micra on it, and when I weighed it on an old scale, it was twice the weight of the classic.
I've got another two weeks to go on the experiment, so we'll see if I can get used to the Leatherman. I don't think the scissors will do it for me. I have only very occasional need for scissors, and then it's light duty. I don't need tin snips in my edc life. But I do like convenience, and having the tools on the micra all on the inside is a PITA on a daily basis. Leatherman should have put them all on the outside like on the small plier tools. Way better design. So far, the design of the micra is not doing it for me. Time will tell. I do have to admit that the micra is built sturdier than the little 58mm Victorinox. Like I said, it's like the industrial vs the smooth.
The two side by side. Since the knife blade is my most used tool, the Vic classic is a bit better than the Leatherman. It's way easier to get at conveniently, and cuts just as good.
Size difference is very noticeable. Micra is more of a pocket tool than keychain tool.
Victorinox on keyring.
Leatherman on keyring.
Thanks for sharing this idea ! I hit my junk and odd and ends boxes and now I got a rig almost just like yours.
I've owned a Micra for many years, but it sits in the bag I take to work. It's a good tool, but I rarely have use for it, and when I do, it's usually only the scissors. I don't particularly like opening the whole tool to get at the other tools. I keep it in my workbag as a 'just in case' item. I won't carry it in my pocket with me.
I much prefer Victorinox products. Much more comfortable and convenient for me, and they've never let me down.
Jim
I much prefer Victorinox products. Much more comfortable and convenient for me, and they've never let me down.
Jim
The inspiration I gained from this propelled me to buy a SAK Classic today. Thanks to Jackknife I now have a Sears 4 Way screwdriver, a small flashlight, and a classic on my keychain. I get a lot of do it yourself inspiration from this and the traditional knife forum. To enjoy a steak, you must eat it. To enjoy your tools, you must use them. Seeing these posts makes me want to inspect every screw, tighten every clamp, file this sharp edge and trim something off, and has me doing more "work" around the house than ever before. These types of posts are why I love Bladeforums. Happy New Year All!
Interesting thread. I'm surprised I haven't seen it yet.
I have both the Vic classic and leatherman micra, and they share near equal time on my keying.
I choose the micra when I have big pockets, and I choose the classic when my pockets are tighter such as wearing jeans.
The micra is certainly bigger, heavier, chunkier and clunkier. The scissors are definitely superior in use and ergonomics. If something can be done with either the knife or the scissors, it'll be the scissors used. The flat head screwdriver I've used as a scraper and pry bar more often than a screwdriver. I've never used the bottle opener- although the eyeglass screwdriver has come in handy once. I find the tweezers difficult because it's permanently attached to the rest of the tool.
I've used every tool on the classic. If something can be done using the knife or the scissor, I choose the knife. It doesn't really have a tool I want to pry with, although I've used the screwdriver for that purpose a few times. The tweezers are surprisingly effective, and the toothpick is used although not often. I always wonder if I'll miss the micra eyeglass screwdriver or the bottle opener, but that hasn't been an issue.
So in my mind, it comes down to: superior scissors vs. smaller, easier carry.
I have both the Vic classic and leatherman micra, and they share near equal time on my keying.
I choose the micra when I have big pockets, and I choose the classic when my pockets are tighter such as wearing jeans.
The micra is certainly bigger, heavier, chunkier and clunkier. The scissors are definitely superior in use and ergonomics. If something can be done with either the knife or the scissors, it'll be the scissors used. The flat head screwdriver I've used as a scraper and pry bar more often than a screwdriver. I've never used the bottle opener- although the eyeglass screwdriver has come in handy once. I find the tweezers difficult because it's permanently attached to the rest of the tool.
I've used every tool on the classic. If something can be done using the knife or the scissor, I choose the knife. It doesn't really have a tool I want to pry with, although I've used the screwdriver for that purpose a few times. The tweezers are surprisingly effective, and the toothpick is used although not often. I always wonder if I'll miss the micra eyeglass screwdriver or the bottle opener, but that hasn't been an issue.
So in my mind, it comes down to: superior scissors vs. smaller, easier carry.
Oddly enough, the Micra's eyeglass screwdriver isn't thin enough for the screws on my eyeglasses. For that I have to use the Vic mini-screwdriver, which I keep in the corkscrew of my Spartan SAK.
As for scissors, I find the ones on my Vic Executive (or Classic/Rambler) excel at fine cutting, whereas the Micra's scissors are better at all-around scissor work. But the Micra's scissors don't seem very good for fine cutting jobs. I do like the fact that the Micra's scissors spring is much stronger and long-lasting. It's similar in design to the old Wenger scissors spring. I have broken some Vic scissor springs, but they aren't too difficult to replace. A friend of mine has an old Wenger-made Swissbuck he's carried for years, but the scissors spring on it broke years ago, and there's no fix for it, leaving the scissors virtually useless. I guess there's a trade off for everything.
Jim
As for scissors, I find the ones on my Vic Executive (or Classic/Rambler) excel at fine cutting, whereas the Micra's scissors are better at all-around scissor work. But the Micra's scissors don't seem very good for fine cutting jobs. I do like the fact that the Micra's scissors spring is much stronger and long-lasting. It's similar in design to the old Wenger scissors spring. I have broken some Vic scissor springs, but they aren't too difficult to replace. A friend of mine has an old Wenger-made Swissbuck he's carried for years, but the scissors spring on it broke years ago, and there's no fix for it, leaving the scissors virtually useless. I guess there's a trade off for everything.
Jim
Be very careful of the 4-way screw driver. It can be a habit forming little piece of gear. Being one solid piece of tool steel, it's indestructible by human hands. I use it more as a scraper and small pry tool than screw driver, although it gets p[lenty of screw driving use. I don't carry it on my keying though, it's a little awkward there, but it's sooo flat it fits in a wallet just fine. It and my P-38 have went through so many TSA airport screenings and courthouse security I've lost track.
With a classic on a keyring and a P-38 and Sears 4-way in the wallet, you can handle a heck of a lot in day to day life. And for very little in both cost and weight. Heck, they are almost disposable tools. The 4-way is .99 cents at Sear's, the P-38 is about 50 cents, and the classic's I buy from a lady who shows up at the local gun show with big boxes of TSA confiscated knives, of which a v try high percent is Victorinox classic's.
I once saw the cover photo on Blade magazine of a Victorinox classic, and the caption was "The most confiscated knife in America." I know Vic sells something like 8 or 9 million of these things a year, so there must be a lot people who forget about them on their key rings when they go the airport. Good for, that lets my buy them for 2 dollars apiece!
Thanks for the promo/demo of the 4-way. I'd seen this thing before, but forgotten about it. It's great to have one onboard. (And I agree about carrying it in the wallet I'm a fan of keys-only on keyrings.)