Eye Fit Question

I knew eyes were larger on top in their narrow dimension, but in their long dimension too? I had no idea, must check some heads around here.

Also, what I was getting at was wedging the head as is so it's good and tight, then using smaller pieces of wood to fill in the gaps left. These pieces don't compromise the primary wedge, they just keep the handle from pivoting. I guess they're not necessary if your first wedge is well done and fitted, but I think I would feel better with the spaces filled.
 
Welp, just measured a Kelly Perfect double that is still waiting on a handle, and you're quite right, G-Pig, 2 7/8" on the bottom of the eye and 3 1/8" on the top. I know it's not much, but I'm surprised I haven't noticed that before now.
 
It depends on the head, but most of them are that way. I know because I make my own handles, and sometimes I can test fit the head on upside down to check the hang before I take enough off the handle to fit the bottom end.
 
G-pig said:
Without seeing the bottom though, that is irrelevant. The wedging action is across the short axis. Even a small gap on each side (assuming it's not like an eighth or a quarter of an inch) is often not a problem at all. I have dozens of examples, with no failures from it.
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Yes, the wedging action is across the short axis. But having the corners tight is key to durability. This is where the crush pressure is greatest on the wood fiber. It's especially important when your trying to pull out a stuck axe. Without tight corners the head can pivot on the haft and abrade the wood, eventually leading to failure. I keep meaning to start a thread on this but I never seem to completely gather my thoughts.
 
In a situation like this a couple things come to mind:

1. Fit the handle down to a 1/4-1/2" from the shoulder ... if you need to go that far to get the bottom tight. If the bottom does not have at least a 1/2" of snug fit to the eye from the bottom up--I would get another handle. It needs to be very snug on the bottom. I like to see a "little" wood peel back the whole way around the bottom of the eye as I insert the handle so I know I have a complete compressed friction fit. Don't allow it to push too much wood at the shoulder or you will split it away. This fitting goes a long way towards longevity.
2. I don't like to spread the top ears more than about 1/4-5/16" or I think I'm losing too much continuous handle strength.
3. In the case of significantly widened/lengthened eye at the top vs. the bottom you will have to deal with filling larger voids--but the benefit is a strong resistance to slippage--its a balanced tradeoff. It is very critical to custom fit the wedge to the whole length of the eye. I round the corners of the wedge to fit the ends of the eye and slightly taper the wedge wider as you drive it in so you create a strong compression fit all the way around the eye on the top. Again I like to see it the wood peeling back on the ends of the wedge/eye.
4. If there are large voids I not only "lightly" gorilla glue the handle before inserting it, but also work glue down the sides with a toothpick after the handle is installed, but prior to driving in the wedge. The wedge is then also lightly glued before it is driven home. The intent is to fill all voids and laminate everything together in one solid mass. The gorilla glue expands which will also help to fill voids better than a standard epoxy or wood glue.
5. If you use a metal cross wedge--do not install for 24 hours so the glue is expanded and set. Driving the wedge "after" the glue has made everything tight will make it even tighter and will prevent splitting the wood in the top of the eye or driving a portion of the wood wedge a below the top of the eye.
6. If there are small voids at the bottom of the eye due to the eye coming to very sharp angles at the ends (instead of rounded corners) ... I would drive lightly glued small hardwood fillers into the bottom of the eye to fill any remaining void and to seal out all moisture after the handle is wood wedged and before the glue sets up so the wood fillers can keep the glue from expanding out of the voids and so it helps to bond everything together.
 
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thunderstick said:
I I round the corners of the wedge to fit the ends of the eye and slightly taper the wedge wider as you drive it in so you create a strong compression fit all the way around the eye on the top.
Click to expand...

I round the ends of the wedge and taper it as well.

Again I like to see it the wood peeling back on the ends of the wedge/eye.
Click to expand...

We differ here. I make sure the wedge fits the eye beyond the depth I expect to drive it. I never want the wedge to be stopped by the ends of the eye, only by the sides of the eye. If the ends stop it then it isn't providing all the wedging action that it could.
 
I don't intend that the ends stop the wedge as I only slightly oversize them on a slightly widening taper and drive them in quite hard with a 2 lb sledge and block of wood. They don't start peeling wood till they are half-way in. If I am peeling too much wood I can easily shave the half-driven wedge down a little more with a knife to ensure the ends don't stop the wedge. I just want to see the ends shaving a little wood off as it is driven in so it is very tight on the ends and the sides. With the wedge glued and tight on all sides it becomes a compressed and laminated fit that should stay put for many years if the end is sealed to prevent the escape of moisture and shrinkage. I have yet to have a head work loose on one installed as described above. Just my way of doing it ...
 
Have you tried DPG (dipropylene glycol) or Swell & Lock on your wedges? I'm been doing this for the past year or so with good result. There have been a few wedges that needed to tapped down a bit after a month of use but then no motion or loosening after that. And I leave my wedges 1/4" high for this purpose.

But I agree totally with you that gluing is effective. I set my hammer handles with construction adhesive for years and never had one come loose. They stay on until you eventually wear them out.
 
I never tried DPG or swell lock. I used to use epoxy but went to gorilla glue and have been completely satisfied. I like the way gorilla glue will adhere to most anything and expands.
 
Is it just me, or in the original pic is there a crack visible in the head itself running from the eye upwards?
Is this normal in axes or is it something to be concerned about?
Or are my old eyes playing tricks on me again?
 
Yeah, that's a leftover from the forging process. Very superficial, not a problem. Lots of axes have them if they are forged by folding the metal instead of drifting an eye in solid steel.
 
Interesting. I understand (in VERY elementary terms) that two pieces of hot steel can be pounded together to form a single piece of solid steel. Still seems amazing to me that the pounding wouldn't leave a crack between the two pieces instead of a single, unified piece.
Are there any good videos showing a "fold over" axe being forged?
 
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