F ball bearings! OK, maybe not so much now, opinion changing

blade man said:
Do you worry about the polymer in Glocks breaking down too? Plastic has been well proven in a VAST array of fields outside of knives.
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I'm pretty sure both Glock and FN both have disclaimers in the cleaning instructions to use only "synthetic safe" or " polymer safe" cleaners and lubricants to avoid polymer break down. Gun Polymer lifetime expectancy has been debated about for years on the net and some conspirators go as far to say that they are even deliberately designed to fall apart or turn to dust after a predetermined amount of time.:yawn: I don't personally believe this to be true but I do believe that my polymer HK's and Glocks wont make it to family heirloom status like steel frame guns have.

Putting bearings in a knife pivot is the new "fad" and undoubtably adds to the production costs.... What knife companies are using the good bearings from China and which ones went with the lowest cost "fisher-price" toy grade variety from China? And even if they know the difference do we?
Have you noticed what actually passes as "carbon fiber" these days?:(
 
Bill1170 said:
Interesting data point. I want to believe in a functional advantage to a ball bearing folder pivot in real life. How do your ball bearing knives behave when fouled by the same powder that freezes your knives with washer pivots? It would be useful to also learn which specific knives were involved in this situation.
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The knife with washers in question is a custom Tobin Smith liner lock, as far as bearings go, i also use those and they too get gummed up but no worse than my custom knife with washers.
 
brandoak said:
I'm pretty sure both Glock and FN both have disclaimers in the cleaning instructions to use only "synthetic safe" or " polymer safe" cleaners and lubricants to avoid polymer break down. Gun Polymer lifetime expectancy has been debated about for years on the net and some conspirators go as far to say that they are even deliberately designed to fall apart or turn to dust after a predetermined amount of time.:yawn: I don't personally believe this to be true but I do believe that my polymer HK's and Glocks wont make it to family heirloom status like steel frame guns have.

Putting bearings in a knife pivot is the new "fad" and undoubtably adds to the production costs.... What knife companies are using the good bearings from China and which ones went with the lowest cost "fisher-price" toy grade variety from China? And even if they know the difference do we?
Have you noticed what actually passes as "carbon fiber" these days?:(
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Why would you think a glock won't last to be an heirloom? My oldest glock, made in 1988, is now 28 years old and has zero issues. 28 years and roughly 15k rounds later it is just as solid as a new production gun.

Really doubt another 30 years is going to do anything to change that.
 
brandoak said:
I'm pretty sure both Glock and FN both have disclaimers in the cleaning instructions to use only "synthetic safe" or " polymer safe" cleaners and lubricants to avoid polymer break down. Gun Polymer lifetime expectancy has been debated about for years on the net and some conspirators go as far to say that they are even deliberately designed to fall apart or turn to dust after a predetermined amount of time.:yawn: I don't personally believe this to be true but I do believe that my polymer HK's and Glocks wont make it to family heirloom status like steel frame guns have.

Putting bearings in a knife pivot is the new "fad" and undoubtably adds to the production costs.... What knife companies are using the good bearings from China and which ones went with the lowest cost "fisher-price" toy grade variety from China? And even if they know the difference do we?
Have you noticed what actually passes as "carbon fiber" these days?:(
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I have not heard of any original glocks disintegrating. Probably would have if it was an issue. As to carbon fiber some use crappy stuff while oddly enough smaller brands and unknowns use the best stuff you can find. Why that is I have no idea. I would have figured the bigger companies would have more buying power and access to void free carbon but it seems china is the best place to find it. But i think the glock anology is a perfect example of how these "problems" just like with bearings are hypothetical with no real examples of true failures taking place. And examples of rusted bearings being due to negligence. I do however wish more companies would go to silicone nitride instead of steel as it would eliminate most rusting issues even if people do neglect their knife. As for bearings being a fad? I disagree. Fads die out after a short time. We are over a decade now of bearings being in production folders. And we just see more and more. Thats not a fad you are seeing. Its popularity. Imho a better example of a fad is spinning tops, fobs and lanyards. You are right though that bearings add to the price of a knife. But literally anything you add to a knife is going to add to the price. Machined pocket clip? More money. Carbon fiber instead of g10? more money. G10 instead of FRN? more money. Literally anything more than a carbon blade and an integral handle and you are paying for something that isn't exactly necessary. I would hate to see what the knife industry would look like if we limited knives to only the necessities.
 
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Wow, that Harnds is everything I want in a knife. The AUS8 is not the best steel but hardly the worst. I am getting one. Thanks for pointing it out.
 
ourgon said:
You can buy bearing flipper for $30 - Harnds Talisman. And action is incredible. Also fit and finish.
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Well , thanks for this info :thumbup: I like what I see and this will be my first folder/flipper knive cost more then 10 bucks .
 
Just be aware that it has wery thin tip and weak pocket clip like in ballpen. But the rest is very solid and feels expensive like in ZT folder or even better. Backspacer is G-10 and screws are solid not some soft crap used by American manufactures very often. With stronger tip of the blade, better pocket clip and better steel it could be bestseller probably still under $100.


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craytab said:
I used my 4-5 year old ZT 0560 yesterday and it didn't explode :eek:



:D
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Yeah, but the bearings have probably worn so far into the handle that they're only like .01 mm below the surface by now. Pretty soon they'll wear all the way through and fall out! :D
 
Ive never had any significant issue with ball bearings.
My ZT0563CF for example, i ude for hard use edc. Ive needed to stab into some tough packaging which also required prying and twisting in the cuts and had no issues at all.

Only those really really tiny diameter ball bearings would you probably need to worry about using for harder use (spydie advocate perhaps?) not good ole KVT.

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So I have Harnds Talisman on the way. I said I would never buy a ball bearing knife. Never say never.......

I might even get a ZT0562 also in the future.
 
Aldebaran said:
So I have Harnds Talisman on the way. I said I would never buy a ball bearing knife. Never say never.......

I might even get a ZT0562 also in the future.
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That's the spirit! It looks very nice for the price, like the Rat 1 of flippers. I'm tempted to try one, too, but I prefer my OHO folders to have a way I can open them slowly, to forestall alarming people nearby.
 
Aldebaran said:
Poor analogy. I have used ball bearings and in many different situations. I also have reports from people that they have had problems with ball bearing knives but never had the same problem with washer knives. So I should ignore all the bad experiences that people have had, and my knowledge and experience with bearings and just go with those who say they aren't a problem? Right....

I have never used a wood saw to cut stainless steel. I never will try to. Why? Because it won't work from my experience of tools and will not work because it is not intended to be used that way. I also know a person who tried and found it not a reliable way to cut stainless steel. Are you now going to tell me I must try to do the same for me to be able to say it is not a good thing to cut stainless steel with a wood saw? Without trying I am only opining and have no basis to not try it? Really guys..........
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Washers being bent, pinched, torn? Ring any bells?

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In the early days of automotive engines they used sleves, which were basicly a washer. They were replaced by bearings and sleves are now a thing of the past. If bearings can hold up in automotive and jet aircraft engines, imho they should be just fine in a pocket knife.
 
skyhorse said:
In the early days of automotive engines they used sleves, which were basicly a washer. They were replaced by bearings and sleves are now a thing of the past. If bearings can hold up in automotive and jet aircraft engines, imho they should be just fine in a pocket knife.
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For what it's worth, the vast majority of automotive engines still use solid bearings (the equivalent of knife washers) for most of their internal components. However, this is largely because it's impossible to get a ball/roller bearing onto a solid forged crankshaft, and it works because the bearings are all under active pressurized lubrication, which means the part to part interface is actually "riding" on pressurized oil and there's no direct metal on metal contact. That's why rod or crank bearings are the first thing to fail when there's a loss of lubrication.

My opinion is that bearing pivots are inherently superior for knives. However, they require proper engineering, and many knife companies seem to get it wrong, as evidenced by the Spyderco pics earlier in the thread. The major upside to bearings is that metal on metal contact, as with washers, will eventually wear the softer metal away, while bearings will run indefinitely without perceptible wear if properly engineered and manufactured. The problem is that most knifemakers are not engineers and they're treading new ground with bearings, and there's a lot less margin of error than with washers.
 
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