Fact check: 1095 vs 1084

S

skillgannon

Joined
Apr 27, 2009
Messages
991
I am wanting to sell a few small blades to guys at work and of course bushcrafty things are huge right now. The hardest I have ever seen one of these blades listed was 56-58Rc.I was just about to say that 1095 offers no performance advantage over 1084 or 1075. Then I started wondering if I was right. I know that properly hardened 1095 will form some carbide does it retain any advantage once it is tempered down into the 50s? There is enough @#$% flying around without me adding to it.o_O
 
To be honest I’m not sure. Would the carbide volume be of benefit that soft? I can tell you that you would be leaving a lot of performance on the table tempering down that low with any of those steels. I did a bushcraft knife last year in z-wear at Rc63, and the owner abused the hell out of that knife, he can’t stop raving about it. I know it’s apples to oranges, but educating the customer can get them what they need, rather than what they think they need. I also did a big camp knife in 8670 at Rc60, and it’s holding up very well too.
 
LOL. To the best of my knowledge, I have never sold a 1084 or 1084/15n20 blade any softer than 60Rc. I have seen a video of a big knife company (ain't gonna mention names, but it rhymes with "flops") doing their "proprietary super tough heat treatment" of 1095 and it consisted of heating the edge in a forge and dunking it in a bucket of what looked like dirty sump oil. I was singularly unimpressed. ;)
 
Lol. I had to send a 1084 blade to one guy to explain that those production knives might be leaving a TINY (I'm from the NW this is how we say huge:p) bit performance behind. All of the 1095 production blades I have used have been best sharpened with a file. I don't really understand how these slab handled knives that are dead soft and come with a 50 cent nylon sheath are selling for well over $100. That said %60 of the price is probably the warranty. I am a little worried about selling anything called a bushcrafting knife when it seems to imply that the knife should be batoned through rocks.
 
Are those the same people who are under the impression that they will be able to pry their bushcraft knife and ONLY their knife from the checked luggage hold of the twisted and mangled burning commuter airplane after they and only they survive the crash in the bad bush of the Yukon territory? ;)
skillgannon said:
Lol. I had to send a 1084 blade to one guy to explain that those production knives might be leaving a TINY (I'm from the NW this is how we say huge:p) bit performance behind. All of the 1095 production blades I have used have been best sharpened with a file. I don't really understand how these slab handled knives that are dead soft and come with a 50 cent nylon sheath are selling for well over $100. That said %60 of the price is probably the warranty. I am a little worried about selling anything called a bushcrafting knife when it seems to imply that the knife should be batoned through rocks.
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What you do is blow their minds by giving them a 60RC tough use knife that will hold up to whatever they need to do, AND will hold an edge. You can give the edge support by convexing a bit and using thicker stock and less than a FFG. They will probably want those features anyway as it seems that's de rigueur for bush crafting these days. Plus, those guys get off on throwing big sparks off of cerro rods. Something a 60RC 10xx blade will do with flying colors.
 
Kevin McGovern said:
What you do is blow their minds by giving them a 60RC tough use knife that will hold up to whatever they need to do, AND will hold an edge. You can give the edge support by convexing a bit and using thicker stock and less than a FFG. They will probably want those features anyway as it seems that's de rigueur for bush crafting these days. Plus, those guys get off on throwing big sparks off of cerro rods. Something a 60RC 10xx blade will do with flying colors.
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The Scandi Mafia will cry foul.

21hh8v.jpg

I sent a 1075 knife to a bushcrafter friend with a full flat grind, .015 behind the edge and iirc 15 DPS bevel to beat up back when I was still apprehensive about how my work would hold up. He didn't like it immediately because of the grind, but did put it through the paces doing all the bushcrafty tasks. It surprised the hell out of him. No chips, no breaks, and couldn't believe the edge retention for "simple 1075." It was 60 RC. He drilled and chopped and whittled and carved and then took it into the kitchen and did food prep with it. I think a lot of these folks just have never held a knife with good grain refinement and a reasonable hardness.
 
One needs a scandi edge because once you get away from that burning plane with just your knife, you will immediately need a wooden spoon.
kuraki said:
The Scandi Mafia will cry foul.

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I sent a 1075 knife to a bushcrafter friend with a full flat grind, .015 behind the edge and iirc 15 DPS bevel to beat up back when I was still apprehensive about how my work would hold up. He didn't like it immediately because of the grind, but did put it through the paces doing all the bushcrafty tasks. It surprised the hell out of him. No chips, no breaks, and couldn't believe the edge retention for "simple 1075." It was 60 RC. He drilled and chopped and whittled and carved and then took it into the kitchen and did food prep with it. I think a lot of these folks just have never held a knife with good grain refinement and a reasonable hardness.
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Well, how else will they stir their moss tea? Unless TSA let the titanium spork in the carry on. Then they'll need to carve a walking stick, and that just can't be done with a FFG.
 
Scandi Grind! To really be sure that your knife will survive you need at a minimum 1/4 though 3/8" is better convext scandi grind as well as bringing your mouse pad or soft backed jig as well as all of your Japanese waterstones and automotive sandpaper. That and char cloth. Without those things your knife will probably fail before you complete your spoon.:eek:
 
Char cloth is merely the beginning. You need at least 3-4 Altoid tins containing every fire starting implement known to mankind. ;) I have been puzzled by one thing for a couple of years. IF you manage to save your knife out of the burning airplane, how it is that the firesteel that is attached to the sheath always manages to go missing? Also, why don't your take some of the gasoline or kerosene from the damn plane? You can make a kuksa from one of your fellow passenger's skulls. They are dead and burned to a crisp so they don't need it anymore.:p
skillgannon said:
Scandi Grind! To really be sure that your knife will survive you need at a minimum 1/4 though 3/8" is better convext scandi grind as well as bringing your mouse pad or soft backed jig as well as all of your Japanese waterstones and automotive sandpaper. That and char cloth. Without those things your knife will probably fail before you complete your spoon.:eek:
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jdm61 said:
Char cloth is merely the beginning. You need at least 3-4 Altoid tins containing every fire starting implement known to mankind. ;) I have been puzzled by one thing for a couple of years. IF you manage to save your knife out of the burning airplane, how it is that the firesteel that is attached to the sheath always manages to go missing? Also, why don't your take some of the gasoline or kerosene from the damn plane? You can make a kuksa from one of your fellow passenger's skulls. They are dead and burned to a crisp so they don't need it anymore.:p
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The plane is on fire. Get a branch, light the end, and bring it to your camp. Effin’ morons.
 
skillgannon said:
Scandi Grind! To really be sure that your knife will survive you need at a minimum 1/4 though 3/8" is better convext scandi grind as well as bringing your mouse pad or soft backed jig as well as all of your Japanese waterstones and automotive sandpaper. That and char cloth. Without those things your knife will probably fail before you complete your spoon.:eek:
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Yup, Scandi is the only way to cut shit.


IMG_0403 by Wjkrywko, on Flickr

3/8” thick 3v. Total waste of steel.
 
You need to get FAR away from the crash site because Odin forbid the search party finds you quickly and screws up your bushcrafty experience. Plus, you don't want to be around when thew wolverines arrive to eat your fellow passengers. :D
Willie71 said:
The plane is on fire. Get a branch, light the end, and bring it to your camp. Effin’ morons.
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I feel like I must be the only person in the world who relies on a bird and trout knife.... It does everything I need.
I've got a bar of 5/16x2" ATS34 kicking around, no idea what I'll do with that.
 
Geoff Flato said:
I feel like I must be the only person in the world who relies on a bird and trout knife.... It does everything I need.
I've got a bar of 5/16x2" ATS34 kicking around, no idea what I'll do with that.
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I love B&T knives! I just did four of them, and have three more in progress. 1/16”, 2.5-3” blade. Cuts like a light sabre.

F66E8F3E-CA21-4CF8-9113-09F8B86FF090 by Wjkrywko, on Flickr
 
Geoff, pm me about the ats34. You are in Canada, right? I might buy it off you. Let me know how much.

Warren
 
I'll double check its ats34 not 440c as I've got a bunch of assorted dimensions of both (labeled, my memory is just horrible) and send you a message. 1/4" I could use for an iron mistress sort of bowie, 5/16 is a bit much for my taste.
It'd be great for a stock removal integral though.
 
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