Factory ege is irrelevant

[mike_mck2]

I have read entire reviews, and sometimes entire threads, where the sharpness of the factory edge is mentioned again & again.
I personally don't care what the edge is like from the factory, because what really matters is the edge it has after I sharpen it, as I won't be sending it back to the factory once I actually use the knife and it needs to be sharpened.

I guess if you never plan on using the knife, or never plan on sharpening it, the factory edge might be important, but otherwise, it's irrelevant.

 

[Shann]

I think its relevant to me. If a buy a knife, it should be sharp. For example, my favorite small locking blade is the Spyderco Calyspo, Jr. and its really sharp and I liked it right out of the box. Second, and shamefully, I'm below average in the sharpening dept. Its easy to keep an edge sharp than to bring it up to where it should be in the first place. If its not sharp and might even need to be rebeveled, or steel removed from the edge, I'm probably not going to get it as good as it should be.

 

[ginshun]

Well, as far as how sharp the edge is from the factory you are right. But the factory edge should be a nice even, symetrical grind. I don't want to spend money on a knife and then have to spend an hour reprofiling the edge because it is totally off center from the rest of the blade.

 

[allenC]

Well, everyone has their own opinion for sure, but the factory edge is very important to me.

I cannot think very highly of a knife manufacturer or custom maker that would sell any customer a dull knife.
After all, if I'm spending my hard earned money on a knife, it had better be sharp.

Not to mention, if the competition can sell their knives with a terrific edge, then why would I choose a knife from a maker who cannot?

And if that maker cannot even supply a sharp-edged knife, then how much does that maker really know about knives?
Do they test their knives?
Do they really know which type of blade-steel will hold an edge longer?

Where is the pride in their product?

Allen.

 

[Andy_L]

Where is the pride in their product?

Allen.

Is the care given to putting a good edge on a reflection of the workmanship? Not always but in some cases it will be. I've had knives that are very sharpe but the grinds are a bit messy and it's more difficult to sharpen next time.
I must admit I was a bit dissapointed when I bought a calypso jr when everyone else was saying how good the edge was. Mine was utter crap but it was easy to sort out.

 

[Way-O]

It's a part of the finish job. Imagine a satin finish that's scraped and going all over the place. Sure I can fix it, but I shouldn't have to. If I pay big money for a knife, I expect the finish to be spot on including the edge. Even if the first thing I do is reprofile it (which IMO is something I shouldn't have to do either). On a budget knife it's not that important. Some cheap knives have good finishes, I'd rather have them spending that on better materials.

 

[jim_w]

I have to agree with the original poster, certainly w.r.t. a working knife - it may well be different for show knives but I can't really say. As far as I'm concerned, a razor edge in the box is a hazard, not an asset. I'm going to sharpen the edge the way *I* like it anyway, so a factory edge means nothing. Frankly, I'm puzzled by knives that are sharp NIB... But then I'm puzzled by black-bladed knives, so I'm hardly representative of knife buyers.

 

[mike_mck2]

Not to mention, if the competition can sell their knives with a terrific edge, then why would I choose a knife from a maker who cannot?

Because there is much more to a good knife than the factory edge, which is not only the first thing to go, but is one of the only "defects" that the end user can fix themselves.

And if that maker cannot even supply a sharp-edged knife, then how much does that maker really know about knives?
Do they test their knives?
Do they really know which type of blade-steel will hold an edge longer?

And if you can get it even sharper than the maker/factory, does that mean you know more about knives, take more pride, and know more about edge holding? Not neccessarily.
Factory edge does not have much to do with any of those things, in my opinion, especially where factory knives are concerned.

 

[Stormdrane]

I have read entire reviews, and sometimes entire threads, where the sharpness of the factory edge is mentioned again & again.
I personally don't care what the edge is like from the factory, because what really matters is the edge it has after I sharpen it, as I won't be sending it back to the factory once I actually use the knife and it needs to be sharpened.

I guess if you never plan on using the knife, or never plan on sharpening it, the factory edge might be important, but otherwise, it's irrelevant.

Why would you buy a knife from someone if it didn't have a sharp "factory edge"? To me, a dull edge means whoever made it was lazy and I don't know just how lazy they were when it came to tempering the blade, just what alloy is it really, etc.... You might as well buy a butter knife if you want to buy dull edged blades, because if it came dull, that might be just what it really is. A 'factory edge' should be sharp, if a knife is being sold, 'factory edge' to me means that it hasn't been used to cut anything and has not been sharpened by anyone else. I believe 'factory edge' is relevant.

 

[daverave999]

Knives are meant to be sharp. Why on earth would anyone buy a knife they knew was going to be blunt NIB? I know I could bring it up to standard but the vast majority of people who purchase knives can't (I'm talking OUTSIDE the knife-knut world here).

It's like a bag of bread and meat being described as a sandwich! But it's ok, I know how to assemble them...

 

[MGF]

I understand the original poster's point, but I also don't think it's too much to ask to expect a finished product when buying knives at retail. I drop $100 on a knife, I expect a nice edge.

 

[allenC]

Alright, here's another way to look at it:

If you were a knife maker (and you might be for all I know), and you sold a knife with a dull factory edge to someone, and they complained about the edge, what would you do?

what reasons would you give for the lack of a sharp edge?

Would you tell him "that's just the way my edges are"?

Would you sharpen it to his satisfaction?

Would you honor the old notion that "the customer is always right"?

Now ask yourself, how many customers are likely to complain about dull factory edges vs how many are likely to complain about factory edges that are too sharp?

A dull factory edge is bad for business.

If you don't believe me, ask Mr. Sal Glesser.

I also think Stormdrane is right--it's a sign of laziness.
If the maker will "cut corners" when sharpening, what else will he "cut corners" on?


Allen.

 

[HoB]

take more pride

No, not pride....but more time. If I get really anal, I will spend easily and gladly one hour on the stones trying out what works best. If I really get into it even longer. It's my hobby, its fun. No factory can afford to spend such time sharpening. However, they are still selling a knife. Last I checked the definition of a knife is "a sharp blade fastened to a handle". If it isn't sharp it isn't a knife, it is a slab of steel with a handle. I mean you can take this argument to an extreme. If you think the customer can put an edge on the knife him/herself, why then put an edge on at all? But cutting a completely new edge on to a blade will likely make you wish that the manufacturer had done it for you.

In some respects I do agree though. The ultimate sharpness NIB is not too important to me either, I can take care of that myself and I am forgiving if the knife is a bit lacking in that regard. But what I want to see is a good, acute and even edge geometry. Perfect example was my BRKT mini-Canadian. It was only scraping sharp, but the convex grind to zero edge was flawless. The scraping sharpness was a result of a left over burr. Once the burr was taken care of, it was screaming sharp.

 

[mike_mck2]

How many knives have you returned because they were not sharp enough?

I'd actually be embarassed to send a knife back to a dealer, forum seller, or anyone else because it was not sharp, or sharp enough. I would expect them ask me, as any sensible person would, why I did not just sharpen the knife, and get on with it....

To each his/her own I guess though.

 

[sph3ric pyramid]

I don't demand that the edge be blisteringly sharp, but I insist on an edge that's evenly ground all the way at a decently acute angle.

 

[mike_mck2]

Alright, here's another way to look at it:

If you were a knife maker (and you might be for all I know), and you sold a knife with a dull factory edge to someone, and they complained about the edge, what would you do?

what reasons would you give for the lack of a sharp edge?

I am not a knife maker. I would not give any reasons for the lack of an edge that meets someone's expectations. I would insist that they send it back if they were not happy with it, give them a full refund, and probably avoid doing business with them.
That's what I would do if I was a knife maker and knew for sure what kind of edge the knife had when it left my shop.

Would you honor the old notion that "the customer is always right"?

It's my opinion that the people really do think the customer is always right are the same type who think there are no stupid questions.

The customer is NOT always right, and there are plenty of stupid questions.

I also think Stormdrane is right--it's a sign of laziness.
If the maker will "cut corners" when sharpening, what else will he "cut corners" on?

Strictly speaking, this talk of individual maker's is irrelveant, as I was speaking of factory edges, not edges on custom knives.

However, now that it has come up, I have owned a knife or two from individual makers that were also less sharp than I can get them with a sharpmaker. Makes no difference at all to me.

When I buy a knife, I don't even check or think about the out of the box sharpness, because the first thing I do is sharpen it myself on a sharpmaker.
Then I check the sharpness, and go from there.
I also don't ask about sharpness when buying a knife from a seller over the internet.

 

[madcap_magician]

The customer is NOT always right, and there are plenty of stupid questions.

Well, there are no stupid questions, but there are a lot of inquisitive idiots.

My two cents is that a knife isn't properly functional unless it's sharpened. Doesn't have to be a razor, unless it is one, but it shouldn't be a butter knife. Especially if I pay a lot for it. And if it's not properly functional out of the box, then it's defective and I would like it fixed.

 

[guy g]

This is a cool topic! With CR there is never a question. I've heard Benchmade has let some dull ones slip out, and none for Spyderco. I think I've had 2 or 3 Bucks that didnt come sharp, but a few minutes with the sharpmaker took care of that.
That all said, I agree that it is a sign of lazyness for consistantly dull factory edges. But havent had enough of a problem to worry about.

 

[Dijos]

Factory edge is totally relevant. When the tool is to be shipped, it should be ready to go. Not all of the consumers are crazy BF members who use different sharpening angles for different purposes, and will discuss this for hours without it ever occurring to them that this may be a little obsessive. Let's take different steels-can you sell a pretty dull D2 blade to someone? Sure, just resharpen it, then take some of the shoulder off and change the bevel. by hand, this may take 2 days of labor. Carbon 1095, about one hour. Does joe blow know this? Hell, no. Not everybody would buy a knife for $35 (buck 110 for example) that he expects will last his lifetime, and then spend 100 on a sharpener for his one knife.

My friend nick got his air conditioner in his truck fixed. The mechanic told him "just fill it with freon, an you're good". Would you pay for a repair that not only did you have to complete, but you won't know if it's done right because without filling the a/c, you don't know if it works...

It should be evident that sharpening is part of the job of manufacturing, and is important to final useability, and testability. How are you going to know if it's heat treated right?

My long-winded 2 cents, Joe

 

[zenon]

I'm a good example of what some of the others have expressed. I'm someone that is interested in getting into this hobby. I knew nothing about knives when I first came here, just over a week ago. I've never sharpened a knife before on anything but an automatic sharpener or those things that form-fit to the blade and you drag down it.

I don't have a clue about what degree or angle to sharpen a knife at. I don't even know the proper steps to go through to sharpen one. If you left it up to me, I'd drag it across any old sharpening stone and hope it gets sharp. Most likely it eventually would, but if you compared my edge to anyone elses, maybe even the factory edge, it would be lacking. I don't know what reprofiling entails, or even what it means exactly. I don't know how to make a bevel and then remove it properly. I know these terms, but I really don't know what it all means.

My best knives prior to my purchase here were cheap red-plastic Swiss Army Knives, or using someone elses for a few seconds to open a taped box or the like.

I consider the factory edge important, because I'm still learning. I eventually hope to learn all these things, that's why I'm here, but I don't expect any average consumer to know how.

Many people buy products based on what their friends say about it. If you tell your friend to buy a Spyderco Manix because it's a great knife versus whatever else they were looking at, they might buy it. Do they know as much as you do about knives in general and upkeep? Probably not.

There are also plenty of stores which have these great knives in the display cases, and the salesperson may push a good product. How will they tell someone that knows nothing about knives that the one being shown is very good, even though it has a dull blade because it was never sharpened?