Factory Knife Edge Sharpness?

I don't consider a knife truly mine until I sharpen it.

My last few purchases

Spyderco shaman and para 2: not too great. Sharpened myself right away
Benchmade 761: not too great either. Had to sharpen
Lionsteel t5: good enough
Crk inkosi/Umnumzaan: pretty sharp
Olamic rainmaker: SCARY scary sharp!
Hinderer xm-18: pretty sharp
 
Kmikaz3 said:
Im kinda perplexed that your spyderco salt was not as sharp as you would expect. All my spydercos are currently scary sharp and doesn’t required me to touch up.

One thing, you could try, is to get yourself, a spyderco sharpmaker optional but highly recommended with Ultra fine rods. With that, it can gets any edges to a razor sharp one.

Alternatively, save some money and get a pm2 as they are all extremely sharp.
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So my friend showed me a used Spyderco folding H1 Salt. He had to have reprofiled the edge (looks like a double sided boxcutter edge!)and said he didn't like the black titanium coating. I knew what he was up to flipping it open and closed. I said how much... he said $50. Sold! That edge is razor sharp and I know less strong. But I like slicing knives sharp! The H1 steel with that coating seems to reject oil, like water does. I fell for that folder and carry it daily in my back pocket. Over the years I had never owned a Spyderco, let alone bought a new one. I kind of thought the folders looked weak at blade joint? But that used folder caused me to purchase the Aqua fixed blade. So you can imagine how I felt when that factory fresh thin blade just tore paper! It cut the worst of any knife I've ever owned and I was hoping when I told Spyderco that, they would simply replace it. Seriously, the Aqua connects with me as does the folder. After some researching The H-1 steel seems interesting and I never have to oil it. Because the folder is Mora sharp obviously H1 can be correctly sharpened and that's what I wanted with the fixed blade version. From the factory it was "Toothy" at best. Unless I got a lemon, they're putting the wrong grind angle on that $130 knife. It's a slicer, not a chopper! Unless they know H1 will not hold a thinner edge well???

Last night I started reprofiling the edge to around 30 degrees. Using diamond stones. That steel is Hard and it's taking quite a bit of work! At midnight enough was enough. But before I put it down I grabbed a piece of paper and even with some burr it slid through paper clean! So I know when I'm done I will be happy. Now if it holds the new edge must be seen. For me a slicing knife should be sharp. The Salt is not exactly a cheap knife. When I got the dull Mora next I was inspired to post. Spyderco has some nice looking $200-$400 fixed blades, but after this experience I passed.
 
Kiteman72 said:
I have dozens of Spydercos and if any of them have arrived without being able to easily shave arm hair and slice paper I must not be remembering correctly.

I have no experience with the H1 steel however and it has a reputation (in PE) for somewhat poor edge holding.

I suppose every once in a while a dull Spyderco gets out of the factory, but I haven't gotten one yet.
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If H1 has such a poor reputation, then why does Spyderco offer so many H1 knives? What good is a Toothy blade that won't hold an edge? I have half the mind to buy another Salt and if it's just as dull as the first, simply return it! At least I'll know. I really like the design of this knife and it seems an extension of my hand!
 
Cabochris said:
If H1 has such a poor reputation, then why does Spyderco offer so many H1 knives? What good is a Toothy blade that won't hold an edge? I have half the mind to buy another Salt and if it's just as dull as the first, simply return it! At least I'll know. I really like the design of this knife and it seems an extension of my hand!
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H1 is all about corrosion resistance. When that is your #1 priority, H1 is apparently what you want.

My knife needs generally don't require corrosion resistance to the point I want to sacrifice edge holding, so I don't have any Spydies in H1.

ETA: The Spyderco Subforum here has some good Salt threads that have tons of the info you are looking for. :thumbsup: Welcome to the Forum!

Spyderco's M390 really does it for me, steel-wise.
 
Eli Chaps said:
This is just not entirely accurate.

All knives, from any maker can stand at least a touch up from the factory.

The Sharp Maker with Ultra Fine rods will only hone already sharp edges and only at specific angles.

The PM2 is not magic. It is as subject to a potentially bad grind getting out as anything else.

I love Spyderco and my experience is they deliver a consistently good edge but the worst factory grind I've ever gotten was from them as well. Things happen.

C Cabochris there is a good chance that those Elk Ridge knives aren't actually 440C. At that price point they may well be something on the order of 5CrXX. This is very common for Chinese offerings. That steel will take a quick edge but lose it just as fast.

Also, if you're dragging your knives through a pull-through type sharpener, you can't expect much. Those things are terrible on edges.

There is a lot that goes into judging a sharp edge to include geometry, proper sharpening, etc.
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I guess I'm looking for a quick field sharpener. Mostly for hunting remote country. Some pocket sharpeners work with certain knives, well good enough. Like you say others destroy edges. I guess the average person wouldn't even know it? I'm now experimenting with a large ceramic rod as a field sharpener.
 
Cabochris said:
So my friend showed me a used Spyderco folding H1 Salt. He had to have reprofiled the edge (looks like a double sided boxcutter edge!)and said he didn't like the black titanium coating. I knew what he was up to flipping it open and closed. I said how much... he said $50. Sold! That edge is razor sharp and I know less strong. But I like slicing knives sharp! The H1 steel with that coating seems to reject oil, like water does. I fell for that folder and carry it daily in my back pocket. Over the years I had never owned a Spyderco, let alone bought a new one. I kind of thought the folders looked weak at blade joint? But that used folder caused me to purchase the Aqua fixed blade. So you can imagine how I felt when that factory fresh thin blade just tore paper! It cut the worst of any knife I've ever owned and I was hoping when I told Spyderco that, they would simply replace it. Seriously, the Aqua connects with me as does the folder. After some researching The H-1 steel seems interesting and I never have to oil it. Because the folder is Mora sharp obviously H1 can be correctly sharpened and that's what I wanted with the fixed blade version. From the factory it was "Toothy" at best. Unless I got a lemon, they're putting the wrong grind angle on that $130 knife. It's a slicer, not a chopper! Unless they know H1 will not hold a thinner edge well???

Last night I started reprofiling the edge to around 30 degrees. Using diamond stones. That steel is Hard and it's taking quite a bit of work! At midnight enough was enough. But before I put it down I grabbed a piece of paper and even with some burr it slid through paper clean! So I know when I'm done I will be happy. Now if it holds the new edge must be seen. For me a slicing knife should be sharp. The Salt is not exactly a cheap knife. When I got the dull Mora next I was inspired to post. Spyderco has some nice looking $200-$400 fixed blades, but after this experience I passed.
Click to expand...

It a shame that Spyderco left a sour taste for you. They do have some insane exotic steels that other manufacturers wouldn’t dare to use such as Maxamet, Rex45 or s110v. They all have an insane edge retention but at a trade off of being also insanely hard to sharpen.
 
Kiteman72 said:
H1 is all about corrosion resistance. When that is your #1 priority, H1 is apparently what you want.

My knife needs generally don't require corrosion resistance to the point I want to sacrifice edge holding, so I don't have any Spydies in H1.

ETA: The Spyderco Subforum here has some good Salt threads that have tons of the info you are looking for. :thumbsup: Welcome to the Forum!

Spyderco's M390 really does it for me, steel-wise.
Click to expand...

Yeah, Spyderco says it holds an edge well. H1 is different and I believe not heat treated but compressed. I'm told the edge gets harder the more you sharpen it? I thought a hard edge holds well?
 
Cabochris said:
Yeah, Spyderco says it holds an edge well. H1 is different and I believe not heat treated but compressed. I'm told the edge gets harder the more you sharpen it? I thought a hard edge holds well?
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Well, as I don't have any knives in H1 steel, I can't really speak from personal experience.

The Spyderco Forum has a wealth of info on H1 steel, especially from those who have used it extensively. Go have a look.
 
Eli Chaps said:
This is just not entirely accurate.

All knives, from any maker can stand at least a touch up from the factory.

The Sharp Maker with Ultra Fine rods will only hone already sharp edges and only at specific angles.

The PM2 is not magic. It is as subject to a potentially bad grind getting out as anything else.

I love Spyderco and my experience is they deliver a consistently good edge but the worst factory grind I've ever gotten was from them as well. Things happen.

C Cabochris there is a good chance that those Elk Ridge knives aren't actually 440C. At that price point they may well be something on the order of 5CrXX. This is very common for Chinese offerings. That steel will take a quick edge but lose it just as fast.

Also, if you're dragging your knives through a pull-through type sharpener, you can't expect much. Those things are terrible on edges.

There is a lot that goes into judging a sharp edge to include geometry, proper sharpening, etc.
Click to expand...

OK, what's interesting with those Elk Ridge 4.5 inch blades... I can feather with a sharp Buck 110 or cut cardboard/packing tape and it dulls quickly. That's why I feathered the heck out of that Elk knife and cut board. It stayed sharp! That cross-steel pocket sharpener (Block) works on it and I suspect this knife would be OK for hunting. Heck, I have a buddy who would be happy as a lark with this knife because it's so easy to stay sharp! Honestly, I do like Chinese food made in America.
 
KitchenQueen said:
I agree with @Eli Chaps, only honing is required and not sharpening. Although many a times, both are considered the same, there are a number of factors that differentiates honing and sharpening like honing doesn't actually sharpen a knife but rather straightens the bevel of the knife if done properly. Honing should be done more frequently than sharpening. This increases the life span of the blade and its usage.
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Also, honing removes very little to no matter from the blade. However, I don’t think honing will do much good to a very dull knife.
 
Not everything is designed or intended to be razor sharp: and, If that is your need, then buy a razor. Knives like the Esee 4 and 5 are marketed primarily as bushcraft knives They are intended for wood work and used frequently for batoning. Put too sharp an edge on that and a lot of them are going to start throwing chips or folding over.

There is no ultimate level of sharpness. The ideal edge for any knife is that which is best suited for its intended use. That is something that is often user defined and depends on the user’s skills, style, strength and technique, as well as, the knife and edge profile, material composition and heat treatment. After trial and error, you put the edge that you want on there and learn to use it and maintain it so that it stays on there. Ideally your collection would carry a variety of edges to give you the best possible tools for a variety of cutting tasks.

n2s
 
My most used knife is Recon Tanto.
Main use - chopping.

I don't want to put ultra fine edge on it for such use. And to the edge and angle I put on that knife honing wouldn't do much.
Hollow grind with convex edge.
I sharpen it until it shaves, once it stops - time to hit the stone again.
I never put hair whittling edge on it as it would be a waste of time for intended use of it.
 
Smiling said:
My most used knife is Recon Tanto.
Main use - chopping.

I don't want to put ultra fine edge on it for such use. And to the edge and angle I put on that knife honing wouldn't do much.
Hollow grind with convex edge.
I sharpen it until it shaves, once it stops - time to hit the stone again.
I never put hair whittling edge on it as it would be a waste of time for intended use of it.
Click to expand...
The only practical use I can see for a “hair whittling edge” is for the kitchen. It would be a pleasure to chop tomatoes and other veggies with very little effort.

Otherwise, if my knives glide across paper without a hitch, that’s good enough for me.
 
I'm yet to see someone do durability test with a Rockstead, we all know they're expensive, but are they durable?
 
My new Buck 120 General came razor sharp. I even trimmed around my beard and mustache with it.
 
I'll say the same thing I always say on these threads: as a general rule, most brands that sharpen by hand do about as good a job as anyone else, no matter how cheap or expensive. That isn't 100% true but it's good enough to bet on.

Some exceptions: Spyderco's machine sharpened knives are more consistent, and Microtech and Hogue clearly go through a polishing step with their edges. Cold Steel targets a lower edge angle on average but still does it just as inaccurately as nearly everyone else.
 
Save for a few higher end companies, I find most factory edges are finished pretty coarse and usually have a few burs hanging out on the edge.
They might strop or buff the edged a little on a wheel, piece of leather, piece of wood etc. but the finest edges I've seen on knives were ones that were sharpened by the end user. You tend to care a little more when you're going to be the one using the tool. :p
I figure reputable manufacturers just give us a good head start with a coarse micro-bevel to shape and polish to your liking.;)
It does make a good showing, however, when a company takes the time to put a nice final sharpening on a new blade. :)
 
About any manufacturer can be hit or miss when it comes to factory edges. Imo a factory edge only reflects the pride a manufacturer takes in their product before delivering it to the customer. I appreciate a new knife having a nice sharp factory edge, but I usually sharpen it anyway regardless.
 
The edge angle depends on the steel. Cheaper steels benefit hugely from a 15-16 degree bevel while higher end steels are better at the 18-20 degree mark.

Harder steel is much harder to sharpen and will lose it's edge while sharpening with a few careless passes over the course of trying to put an edge back on it. Practice consistency in maintaining the angle, or stick to a slightly softer steel which requires fewer passes, thereby reducing the chance of a careless pass ruining your hard work.

I always go for softer/cheaper/tougher steel because of this, I don't have the time or patience to bother trying to get an edge on a hard steel.
 
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