Fail

Well perfectionism isn't such bad thing. You know what the old saying is, "If at first you don't succeed, don't try sky diving." Does your buddy know about W&SS? He might be more helpful if he registered at this forum. Otherwise I'm afraid there's no help for you until you take out his grandpa (kidding)...:)
 
I don't say this to criticize, but just to emphasize a point. It seems that much of the problem of finding firewood and improving your shelter could have been reduced by carrying a small flashlight of some sort. Find a little AAA LED light and throw it in your kit. I would much rather have that than some fishooks and sinkers.

As far as "fail", I don't think so. You did quit while you were ahead, but that doesn't mean that you failed. Would it have been success if you froze your butt off all night? I am not implying an answer, just asking the question. I expect that in your opinion, success would have been not to have survived, but to have hardly noticed the experience. This being the case, does a PSK offer enough toolwise to venture out in the late afternoon on a short day in the winter for you to make yourself comfortable?

A PSK is a compromise between functionality, size, weight, and expense. At one end is an altoids tin, at the other is an over the shoulder bag. Obviously each makes compromises the other does not. At the small end of the range, they compromise your comfort in the event you have to use them to make them more comfortable to carry.
 
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siguy said:
as i was preparing to participate in TFin's thread on spending a night out with a survival kit, i got a basic kit together that i felt would probably take care of me based on my experiences so far camping and being in the woods.

once i actually tried to use it though, i ran into a few problems. some of these were based on the kit, some were based on this individual situation and the way i set it up.

i kept track of everything with video diary, but here is a pic of the fire until i get it edited together and uploaded to youtube:

IMG_0299.jpg


so just how long did i last? 4 hours :(:foot:


i got out there a bit later than i would have liked, about 3:45. i found a spot and started pulling together a shelter. my shelter consisted of a frame made from large pieces of wood i found on the ground, filled with dead leaves off the ground. i set up my space blanket over the bed as a sort of tarp.

i made a small fire ring and got a fire going. then i sat around and took care of the fire...

the way i set up the bed and the fire, there wasn't really a good place for me to sit unless i was laying in my leaf bed, which wasn't that great for sitting and enjoying the fire. mistake 1.

after a while of sitting around feeding the fire on smaller sticks and things, i realized i was running very low on wood. even though i had a small fire and a pretty good pile of sticks ready, i was running out fast, not too long after the sun set. mistake 2.

i found a deadstanding cedar that i was able to harvest in the dark, to keep feeding the fire. more sitting around being bored.

i took the ridgepole that was holding my space blanket up down and used it to feed the fire (deadstanding birch-great firewood). somehow in the process i ripped my space blanket almost in half. mistake 3.

after that, i decided that even though i wasn't cold and was decently comfortable, that i had already shown all the weaknesses of my kit and that if i spent the night out i would be pretty miserable.

so i came back, a failure :(

i'll get up the videos as soon as i can...
Click to expand...


#1 Was not a mistake. Enjoying the fire in a survival situation is not a requirement. All it needs to do is provide warmth.

#2 Not a mistake. In a real situation where you found yourself needing fire materials late in the day you would have gathered what you could while it was light and more when it was necesary. You did that.

#3 Gear failure. Not a mistake. Now you will find a better replacement.

#4 Leaving when things might get bad. Sound survival thinking. Why wait until it turns into a real survival situation.



WELL DONE
 
Any Cal., i suppose you are right, i hadn't really thought about my definition of success in this case. i guess my definition would have been comfort, vs just surviving. i'm 100% confident i would have survived, but i would not have been comfortable.

i uploaded the first of several clips, these are the most relevant ones. after these i am mostly just aiming the camera at the fire and talking about different things...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1jYN4vkd-38
 
Simon, I know you mentioned the dead cedar, but I'm curious did you have the capability to harvest a living tree? Now I wouldn't really do that if I was just out having fun or testing a theory, but I sure as hell would if it meant my survival. Presuming you could have taken down enough small trees (I'm thinking SAK saw here), you would probably have had a pretty cozy night.
 
theo, i left the big cutting tools home on purpose, the only blade i used was my 3.75" puukko.

there were alot of evergreen boughs that would have been good for building a shelter, but i didn't really want to do alot of cutting up trees and such, i mostly wanted to see what i could do with minimal knife work.

i really need to try out a SAK with a saw...i'm thinking of picking up a farmer soon...
 
Not failure bro.. believe when someone asked Thomas Edison how he felt about the 200 failed experiments he encountered prior to developing the first electric light he said something like "I never failed. I found 200 ways not to make a light bulb"...I had a similar experience this pas Tues. when I spent a freezing night in a leaf hut I built before I realized there wasn't enough leaf litter to make it thick enough...And it got dark quick.. the lesson i Learned was to let the lmitations of my environment dictate my shelter style, rather than preconceiving my shelter before I hit my sight. (looked like enough leaves when I started) I also learnd that the hotrock heating method is effective but only for about 3-4 hours
 
SIGUY
I just took a second look at you picture and it occured to me that you made nice fire to look at, which is probably what most of us do in non survival situations. Which is what 99% of our "camping" trips are.

They say the Indians thought the white man was wasteful because he burnt up his wood to fast making big fires.
Perhaps a smaller fire for warmth and feeding the ends in slowly would have been the prefered method and would have made your wood suply last the night.
I don't think that flames are a requiement to continue to get heat. I know my friend who heats his home with a wood fire cuts his fire back to the point where there is little if any flame. He puts one log on and it last the night.
There are probably others here who do the same depending on where they live.
Anyone else have any thoughts on keeping a small fire going.
SIGUY we might all have learned a lesson from you.
Thanks
 
i intentionally only did a pretty small fire. i don't think i ever let it get bigger than about 10 inches across. i was suprised at how fast it burnt up the fuel given how small it was...

but then i realized that since i was using small fuel it doesn't matter how small the fire is, since it is the fuel size and not the size of the whole fire that determines how long it will last. an axe or saw would have allowed me to cut larger fuel, making for a longer lasting fire...
 
Good on you for going out and giving it a shot. I'm sure the next time will be better! :thumbup:

What kind of space blanket did you have?
 
siguy said:
i intentionally only did a pretty small fire. i don't think i ever let it get bigger than about 10 inches across. i was suprised at how fast it burnt up the fuel given how small it was...

but then i realized that since i was using small fuel it doesn't matter how small the fire is, since it is the fuel size and not the size of the whole fire that determines how long it will last. an axe or saw would have allowed me to cut larger fuel, making for a longer lasting fire...
Click to expand...

I seldom carry and use an axe or saw. A lot of larger stuff can be broken smaller by wedging it into a crotch of a tree or between two trees and breaking it by pushing or pulling. I gave up long ago on the "stomp" method as a springy piece of wood can toss you on your azz orworse, cause you to sprain your ankle.
 
Siguy, AWESOME videos. Simple, and quick. Showed exactly what you were doing. Nice shelter building technique, and good looking knife!

Thanks for taking the time to do this.
 
Siguy I just watched you video's, you had a good little set-up going. The only thing i can sugest is a bit heavier duty space blanket, they do wonders, and usually have an orange reflector on the back side.

All in all a good outing man, try'er again and keep having fun.
How many times have you been out alone? is this a first or second you did a fine job.
 
way to get out there simon...:thumbup: it's all about learning bro..and that you did...:)

great video's too...:D well done..
 
my space blanket was a cheapie, its one that i've already used, so it may have been weaker than a new one would have been. it is the one i typically carry though, so i suppose that was a realistic test of the kit.

fonly, this was one of the first times i've been out overnight on my own. the first time in the late fall/winter.
 
hey that's awesome - you did really well! i'm sure you would have made it fine through the night even if you would have been miserable by the morning. two things stand out for me - the need for a good tarp and the usefulness of a good fuel-gathering tool like a small hatchet or saw (like a Silkyboy)

the only mistake i think you made was starting so late - you need several hours to gather enough wood. gather as much as you think you need and double or triple the amount.
 
What I get out of this wrt survival practice is:
Rule #1: Use old, cheap, worn out gear. In real life, that might be all that you can find when the S truly HTF.
Rule #2: Try to practice when the weather isn't so nice. In real life that might be close to what type of weather you have when the SHTF.
 
Siguy .... are you gonna give it another try tonite ?

I understand the lows are gonna be in the teens tonite ..... BRRRRRR !
 
i'm heading out again in a few minutes. this will give me a few hours instead of 1.5 to get setup before dark.

it is pretty chilly and very windy today, but i am carrying a heavier kit. i don't know if that will more or less disqualify me from TFin's contest, but i don't mind... i just want to get this down pat.
 
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