Fake Napanoch Knife Co. Buffalo Horn Whittler??

Codger_64

Codger_64

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This one can't be old enough to have been made from 1900 to 1938. So who made this, and when/where?

http://cgi.ebay.com/NAPANOCH-KNIFE-...614446727QQcategoryZ43331QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

1900: Napanoch Knife Co. formed by the Carman brothers and W. D. Hoornbeek began manufacturing in the old Duvall Rake factory on National Street.
1919: The Napanoch Knife factory on National Street was sold to Winchester Repeating arms.
1921: Honk Falls Knife Co. Formed by former workers of Napanoch Knife company, including John Cushner, Melvin Schoonmaker, and Melvin Quick, all knife makers, and George Brackley. , a businessman.
1929: A fire destroys the Honk Falls Knife factory and it’s contents.
1929: Remington sold out to the Dupont Company.
1929: John Cushner restarts Napanoch Knife Company in a building behind his house in Napanoch, N.Y.
1938: John J. Cushner, owner of Napanoch Knife Company died in a tragic auto accident, and his wife Anne, and daughters, Rita, Helen, Esther, and the faithful workers continued the work until all the orders were filled. The factory then closed and the machinery was sold.

Codger
 
This is not an original knife the present owner of the name has several models of these that they make and sell. Most collectors are aware of these they have been around for some time. However to the new collector they can be confusing if it is not specified that they are newly made. There are several of these older companies to which this is now and has been done for some time. I have attached some pictures the saddle horn Napanoch in the pic is real and correct. It is is quite nice condition and original. I bought it from an elderly man from this area some years ago. The stag New York knife is an edition produced under contract by Schrade perhapes 10 or 15 years ago. This again was the present owner producing new knives under an old tang ( that they owned. ) . These also were thought by some new collectors to be originals when they first entered the market, in fact it caused a small bit of excitment ( like a new find ), however it would be obvious to someone who collected these that NYK did not produce a model like this. The last picture is of a real NYK knife tang. ( sorry first example I grabbed not a great picture) the other knife is a PHOENIX also a sought after NY tang marking this one is original however the owner of this marking often produces similiar new knives under the old name so you shoukld be aware of it. The owner of NYK and PHOENIX may be the same person. I do not remember off hand who it is but Smokey and Taylor both lease and own many of these various companies rights. PS I just read the ad you are correct while the seller does not say that the knife is old he sure edges around making the buyer think it is. LT
 
I'm not sure if "fake" is the most accurate description, more like modern reproduction. I believe this is one of the old brand names that Jim Parker bought up and starting making and selling knives under. There may have been several dozen old company names that he used to reissue knives that may not have any resemblance to an actual knife made by that particular company. Buyer beware.
 
I should have added that many of these Parker "old brand" name knives were made in Germany and a lot of the versions I've seen have Buffalo handles.
 
Unless the trademark owners are ashamed of themselves and their products, why won't they identify themselves with their own mark, date on the pile side? It will sure make for a mess years down the road, if not dishearten new collectors now. I am seeing piles of NYKC knives appearing for sale as well. Unless one is already an avid and accomplished collector, and can reference known knives he has seen, how is one to really know for sure? I could buy one of these..... knives, and do an acid bath, some distressing, and it would pass easily to a new collector as an original. Most newer collectors don't have, or have access to a comprehensive library of trustworthy reference material, or actual examples, to be able to make the distinction. Maybe the seller I referenced did not commit a crime of commision, but he did commit the crime of omission.

I think it is high time that a book be written specifically on the comparisons of the original knives, and the details of the...o.k., if not fakes, then repros passed off as originals. Or does such a book exist that I am not aware of?

Codger
 
Napanoch knives are a study unto themselves. Attached are some pics from Rhett Stidhams book NAPANOCH A white Man's Knife with a "Red Man's Name". It is a small volume which contains a wealth of information regarding this knife and this company. LT
 
I believe that knife is built on the same frame as the Bulldog Whittlers (one pictured below) produced by Olbertz. I don't think it's a counterfeit or fake.....just a very misleading way of selling knives, as you folks have stated. I wish they'd just say it's a modern knife utilizing an old brand name.

There is a good book, Counterfeiting Antique Cutlery, available here.....

http://www.nationalknife.org/default.cfm

.....or, from KnifeWorld here.....

http://www.knifeworld.com/counancut.html

But of course, not everything is in a book, as the knowledge displayed in this forum is constantly reinforcing that fact to me, and others who visit here.

Bill
 
You are quite right that the resources are out there...and here to answer questions about these knives. And I apologize for getting my tail in a knot over this item this morning.

I suppose it is in part because I am looking for a straw man to knock down and kick. I got the news last night that my mom is in the CICU and I will be picking up my brother from Houston at the airport in Memphis shortly to make the trip to Arkansas to be with her. Redirection of anger, I guess. The seller (and maker) of this knife was a target of opportunity.

I have been researching the "roots" companies of the Hudson valley for a while now, sifting for facts, names of people, their operations and innovations, and their interrelationship with the knife makers that eventually became the Imperial Schrade Corporation. It is dang near like tracing the ancestory of a family. And in fact they were in a way.

Codger
 
Let me know if there is any way I might help, please accept my best wishes. Hang tough Micheal, just like I know you always have in the past. LT PS Yup that is the real deal on the 8-OT. However these are the delrin versions they and the 2-OT were made in smooh bone. Still that is a nice six pack.
 
lt632ret said:
Still that is a nice six pack.
Click to expand...

Pick your poison:

8OT.jpg


Sixpack_Amerika.jpg


normal_30.jpg
 
For the pure excitement, I'd take the bimbos. But for getting my money's worth, I'd have to take the Old Timers. :)

I mean, how long are three big-chested blondes going to hang around after they find out I'm a broke-ass geologist? About as fast as they can get to the door I imagine. How long's a six-pack of beer going to last? About an hour, maybe two. A six-pack of mint-condition OldTimer knives? They'll last forever.

Can anyone explain why the multi-pack box is labeled "80-OT"? I don't have a model 80 on my OldTimer list, and they look like regular 8OTs to me, but I can't read the tang stamps in the auction photos.

-Bob
 
How much for the whole package??? Throw in 6 shots of crown might as well take the whole case. LT
 
The seller of this Napanoch knife bought it from Dusty Duck Collectables (sportcolbs) on eBay. His son wants a Case Whittler instead so this one is desicribed as the original seller described it. This seller not sure whether it is a later licensed product or not. I could not find completed listings on sportcolbs to check what he had to say about this knife, but if I was a betting man (which I am) I'd say it's a newer license knife by Parker or someone like that.

Paul
 
Here's a photo of Jim Parker (Right) presenting an award to Bill Swan (sportscolbs) for peddling the most of Parker's knives on ebay. Looks like some sorta back-alley deal going down, doesn't it?

The knife that started this whole thread is a modern Napanock, made for Parker's Knife Collector Service, sometime in the nineties. And codger-- Mike-- I think you picked a good, deserving target. This kinda crap makes me wanna puke. Grand old knife names brought back for the sole purpose of making someone a fast buck, in the process screwing around with real knife history, confusing and ripping off new collectors... I could go on and on.

But Mike, what's important today is your mom. I wish her well.

Phil

sportcolbsandjimparkersmaller.jpg
 
Codger, My 90 year old Dad just came home after being in the Cardiac intensive care unit and he's doing very well. So I know how stressful it can be. I hope all goes well for you and your's.
 
Codger,
Best wishes and our prayers for your Mother !! I'm sure we're all hoping she has a speedy recovery !:thumbup:

From Levine's 5th:
Napanoch - trademark for Parker KCS,Chattanooga,TN,made in USA/Japan-1993-pres(2001)

Ron
 
Sheathmaker I guarantee the knife to be a newer issue. It is not an original Nap. LT
 
Redshanks,
That is real interesting. I saw one of those at a store, but I think it was a newer one made by Case, but I really don't like the skinny end on the Seahourse. Now I will have to go back and look (which you know, as a knife addict, can be dangerous to one's wallet).
I have wanted a Wharncliffe blade in a user for a long time, but the only one Schrade made (that I am aware of) was the 44OT Workhorse, and I haven't been able to get my hands on one yet. I keep looking on fleabay but haven't even seen one in more than a month. As I recall it was NIB and went for the better part of a Ben Franklin......a tad or two beyond my modest budget.
But "hope springs eternal".....as someone said, and I have hopes of finding one in a junk store/pawn shop/etc for $5-$10......SOMEDAY. :D

Dale
 
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