Fall Land Navigation Class

[G-man]

Looks like a great time! Good pics as well.

 

[Brian Andrews]

Brian,

Is there a particular compass that you recommend to those taking the course?

Thanks

Hey KuRUpTD,

Yes, there is actually. Of the different navigation styles, we teach the simplest method possible.

If you use a compass alone, no biggie. But when using a map and compass together (the most powerful thing you can do) the 2 most common things that you are going to do is:

1) Steal a bearing from the map, and then follow it in the field.
2) Transfer a field bearing to the map.

In doing either of these, all you are doing is simply measuring an angle relative to north. In this case the north/south meridian lines on your map, or perhaps magnetic north lines (if you drew them in, or your map has them).

The method we teach simply uses the protractor on the compass to do that. Which means (and this is important) you can do it with no regard for what the magnetic north seeking needle is doing in your compass.

Other methods have you orient your map to north, and then rotate your compass to get the bearing. This method relies on an accurate position of your north seeking needle in the compass. I find this:

A) Hard to do in the field. Seems like you end up slighting moving your map while rotating your compass after aligning it to north. And,

B) Difficult to do on almost any surface. If you put your compass on a table or counter, or almost any flat surface and then move it around, you will see the needle swing all over. Even clipboards have metal parts (I have looked!)

Long way of saying, if you want to do what I consider "The Easy Way" you need a compass with a protractor. So, a standard baseplate or sighting compass. Military compass are cool for their ruggedness and design, but either require math, or a separate protractor, are not declination adjustable (at least current US Military issue. Old British Military version are, and are highly expensive), and can only remember bearings in 3 degree increments.

While the standard baseplate or sighting compass is my recommendation, my current favorites are:

Baseplate: Suunto M3-G
Sighting: Suunto MC-2G

If you are interested, I wrote an article for Woodsmonkey awhile ago comparing the MC-2G to the Brunton 8099 Eclipse. You can read it here.

B

 

[coaldigger]

Thanks for the pics & the info. 'Ol Bud...Compass & Map are one of my weak links I have the same Compass as the guy (husband/wife team) in your pics, the Silvia. I need to get out & practice with it more.

 

[DiverDn]

Brian (or anyone for that matter) are you aware of any good websites for organizations that would hold this type of class?

I want to learn land nav. badly, but don't know anybody in the area that can teach me.

Thanks
John

 

[bulgron]

Hey KuRUpTD,

The method we teach simply uses the protractor on the compass to do that. Which means (and this is important) you can do it with no regard for what the magnetic north seeking needle is doing in your compass.

I've been using a map and compass for many years, but I must confess that I can't imagine how you use the two together "with no regard to what the magnetic north seeking needle is doing in your compass."

The whole point of having a compass is to pay attention to what the needle is doing in the compass, one way or another. Else, how do you find your bearing in the real world?

So I must be misreading you.

Or you must know some magic that I've never seen before.

Can you please elaborate?

 

[Brian Andrews]

Absolutely,

I was being very specific. When doing those two things:

1) Taking a bearing from a map
2) Transferring a bearing to a map

You can do both of those, using one method, without regard for what the north seeking needle is doing. After you complete number 1, you will then shoot that bearing in the field and walk it. Of course that requires the use of the north seeking needle. But the act of obtaining the bearing from the map does not. Because all you are doing is measuring the angle between the desired direction of travel and either your north/south meridian map lines, or magnetic north lines (if you have them and depending which way you decide to deal with declination). That just requires the protractor built into these styles of compasses.

Now, in order to do number 2 you had to have the bearing from someplace. That is from shooting the bearing in the field, which of course uses the north seeking needle. But, in order to actual transfer that to the map, again it can be done without regard for what the north seeking needle is doing, because you use the protractor feature.

The other methods require orientation of the map, hold it still, rotate the compass and then let the north seeking needle measure the angle you just created. That is the method that I am saying is difficult and unnecessary.

I am explaining that ok? Sometimes what is in the head doesn't come out in text If not, let me know.

B

 

[bulgron]

Absolutely,

I was being very specific. When doing those two things:

1) Taking a bearing from a map
2) Transferring a bearing to a map

You can do both of those, using one method, without regard for what the north seeking needle is doing. After you complete number 1, you will then shoot that bearing in the field and walk it. Of course that requires the use of the north seeking needle. But the act of obtaining the bearing from the map does not. Because all you are doing is measuring the angle between the desired direction of travel and either your north/south meridian map lines, or magnetic north lines (if you have them and depending which way you decide to deal with declination). That just requires the protractor built into these styles of compasses.

Now, in order to do number 2 you had to have the bearing from someplace. That is from shooting the bearing in the field, which of course uses the north seeking needle. But, in order to actual transfer that to the map, again it can be done without regard for what the north seeking needle is doing, because you use the protractor feature.

The other methods require orientation of the map, hold it still, rotate the compass and then let the north seeking needle measure the angle you just created. That is the method that I am saying is difficult and unnecessary.

I am explaining that ok? Sometimes what is in the head doesn't come out in text If not, let me know.

B

Nope, that makes sense.

The "easy" procedure that you describe is exactly what I've been teaching my kids. Although, for most people who are just out following trails, transferring bearings to and from maps is an almost trivial exercise. Usually it involves, "do I want to go left or right on this here trail?" Assuming a decent map and a good understanding of where you are on that map, you don't even need a particularly accurate compass to answer that question.

I noticed that one of the compasses you recommend is a sighting compass. I don't know what other navigation exercises that might be useful for, but I've always used it to collect reasonably accurate bearings from tall landmarks so that I can use triangulation to fix my location on a map. Admittedly, this is an exercise that is best suited for environments other than relatively flat, wooded areas such as you seem to be operating in (based on the pictures that you shared). Did you get into techniques like that, or did you stick with much more simple and basic navigation techniques?

This thread is interesting to me, because I recently had a conversation with someone who expressed amazement that I do solo hiking. I figured that he was worried about injury when out in the mountains alone, but instead he said that he figured he'd get lost if he was all alone. Turns out, he doesn't seem to really know how to use a map and compass. So now I'm thinking about giving him some lessons.

There's compass work, and then there's real compass work. Most people who just want to stay on trails can get along with relatively modest skills. Of course, if you want to start cutting across country, chasing steeples or flags or something, then navigation gets a whole lot harder. But I always think it's a shame when I meet people who find a map & compass so exotic that they can't use it to keep themselves on the right trail which is clearly marked on a halfway decent map.

Which reminds me: my kids are overdue for another lesson.

 

[Brian Andrews]

Hey Bulgron,

For the most part, gross direction finding will cover you 95% of the time. Looking at a map and knowing you need to go NE, then doing it, will cover most people. There are of course LOTS of exceptions to that. Like:

- I grew up doing this stuff hunting with my dad. There was no such thing as a "trail." We were basically out exploring whether it was scouting or actually hunting season.
- A lot of popular places have good trail maps. Many trail maps around me really suck. They have no detail, the scale is usually approximate (at best) and they miss major things (like not crossing over a river when the trail actually does. That is a major detail to me ). Many USGS or USGS based maps are old and don't have the trails either. A lot of times you need to use both sets up maps and your skills if you want to keep on top of where you are at. Mapping software (ie. Delorme is getting great a getting trail data included, but it is still mostly popular stuff).
- Emergency. You never know when you might need to get the hell out of dodge as soon as possible. Understanding how to read a topo and knowing where you are at might mean that the trail is not the best route. Also, most "lost" situations are when someone steps off trail "momentarily."

Is all that worth the effort of learning all the other orienteering "stuff?" Don't know. That is up to each individual.

The sighting compasses are traditionally for taking accurate bearings on distant objects, and then aid in triangulation. The common setting for those is mountainous country, where you can actually see distant objects . Most people claim "they are not good for Michigan" as the heavy woods really limit distant object spotting. Usually if you can see a "hill" you can pretty much tell where you are on the map. This particular area does actually have some terrain and that is why the location is chosen. A big part of the class is interpreting contour lines, visualizing them, and then seeing them in the real world.

However, I have found one other use for a sighting compass in heavily wooded areas. If you are trying to follow a bearing, you shoot one and all you see it tree, tree, tree! For me, if I sight the bearing, it "tunnels" my vision to try and pick out a more distinct landmark.

Yes, the class does indeed teach triangulation, bisection, aiming off, navigating around objects based on time or pace counting, leap frogging, dead reckoning. I am pretty sure we hit on just about everything you can do with map and compass. Just no GPS. There is another class for that.

 

[Stormstaff]

Brian,
I'm going to read your review but I was curious of your opinion on the Brunton 8097 that's a step or two below the one you reviewed? I think it's discontinued now but it's what I have.

 

[adaman04]

That looks like a good time. My orienteering skills haven't had a good workout since I was in the Boy Scouts!

 

[thesupersurvivalpost]

That was a great post, thank you. Your friend at the post Donald S.

 

[Brian Andrews]

Brian,
I'm going to read your review but I was curious of your opinion on the Brunton 8097 that's a step or two below the one you reviewed? I think it's discontinued now but it's what I have.

The 8097 is a fine compass. It does not have the parallax issue that I detailed in the review on the 8099 because it is not a sighting compass. Therefore, the "circle over circle" works great because you have to view it from above, being a standard baseplate compass.

However, being a really good compass, it still does have a couple drawbacks:

1) No luminous points. It can not be used in the dark without a light. That might be a draw back for some, and not for others. Here are some things to consider on that.

- You should not navigate in the dark. Having said that.....it is going to happen Plus, it is almost necessary for hunters.

- If trail hiking, and you are late to camp, and darkness falls, having a luminous compass might not be a big deal. Because if you are keeping track of things, you will probably want to look at your map, which means a light. Or, just following the trail (for some).

- If you are hunting (no trail) or doing stuff that requires you to follow a bearing, then the luminous points are a BIG deal. Once the bearing is set, all you have to do is line up all the "glowing points" to follow your bearing. That way if you are navigating with night vision (close to full moon situation, or eyes just adjusted well) you don't have to keep pulling out the flash light to follow your bearing.

2) Meridians in the capsule. Brunton's literature teaches both type of bearing methods, but their designs are geared towards the "orienting the map" method, which I do not like (for reasons I have beat to death over and over ). Because of that, they do not put any meridian lines in the capsule. It is all blank. Instead, there are meridians in the small outer ring. That outer ring is also white (not clear). Being spaced so far apart on not on a clear surface, there can be a little bit of guess work in telling if you are lined up for your bearing. That seems to counter dict the point of having 1 degree graduations. Bottom line....I just wish they would put meridians in the capsule.

Things I do like about that compass:

1) Easy to adjust for declination.
2) Disc magnet is cool.
3) 1 degree graduations (although not really necessary without sighting capability).

Hope that helps,
B

 

[MattM_Gilbert]

Great course!

A few questions to consider, if you don't mind:

1. Have you considered publishing your own short book on this subject?

2. Do you ever make use of a transit compass?

3. The hat, which also appears to be in your avatar: who makes this?


Thanks,

Matt

 

[Brian Andrews]

Hi Matt,

1) I have thought about it. Most navigation books these days introduce GPS in the mix. It would be nice to have a truly dedicated "map and compass" book. The ones that are strictly dedicated to "map and compass" seem to have some quirk about them that I don't really like. I wouldn't be too excited about the scale of that undertaking, and would also not know how to go about doing it.

2) I have used one, and I would love to own one. But for someone outdoors for pleasure, I don't see them as being practical. They are bigger and heavier. They are not easy for stealing a bearing from a map, nor transferring one back to it. Most folks using this style compass are likely to have other instruments (possibly electronic) or use other tools on a map while the transit compass stays tripod mounted. Most are not luminous at all, I think because again, they are product for people in a specific field, not for outdoorsman. That being said, I would LOVE to own a Brunton GEO compass just from the coolness factor alone. I would use it, and play with it for sure. But, when it came to a trip where I had to be seriously aware of my whereabouts, it would stay home. Still, would love to have one of those buggers.

3) It is a Tilley LTM6 Airflo. I usually like the stiffer Akubra style hat, but the Tilley is super comfortable, and one that can be stuffed in a pack without regard. Because of that, it goes more places.

B