Yeah, I was rather expecting the GI Tanto would hold up best. After all, it's not exactly a knife - just a poorly sharpened edge slapped on a thick bar of metal.
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Fallkniven A1 Destruction Test Video Completed
- Thread starter noss4
- Start date
Yeah, I was rather expecting the GI Tanto would hold up best. After all, it's not exactly a knife - just a poorly sharpened edge slapped on a thick bar of metal.
Photos of A1. The knife consists of three separate layers of steel.
In the bottom photo you can see the tang is broken at the blade.. This did not occur when I stood on the handle. This occurred when I put the blade in the vice and hit the handle with the 3 lb steel mallet. It took a few heavy hits before it broke at tis location.
In the bottom photo you can see the tang is broken at the blade.. This did not occur when I stood on the handle. This occurred when I put the blade in the vice and hit the handle with the 3 lb steel mallet. It took a few heavy hits before it broke at tis location.
yerscattergun: I would like to test the bravo-1. I don't know when I will be able to get to it yet. Maybe after I get caught up with all thats on my plate
I can test one.
Spydiefan04: I do plan to test folders an yes I will have to scale back some of my methods but I won't take it easy on them.
I can test one.
Spydiefan04: I do plan to test folders an yes I will have to scale back some of my methods but I won't take it easy on them.
Cobalt
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Yeah, I was rather expecting the GI Tanto would hold up best. After all, it's not exactly a knife - just a poorly sharpened edge slapped on a thick bar of metal.
true, but so is the A1. It is also a sabre ground blade convexed down to the edge. That is about as thick as a knife can be. The fact that it is so sharp means you can make anything sharp. My timberline Specwar is a sharpened prybar as well, but it is very sharp being a chisel ground blade.
If the A1 was fully flat ground from the spine it would have better overal slicing geometry but would not be nearly as tough or strong.
Noss, great pics, laminations definitelly prolonged the destruction which is expected. I wonder though if the steels peeling from each other at the weld(where they are joined together) is what manufacturer would expect. I would think that they would prefer that no happen. I'd like to see someone from the mfg comment about this.
I rather disagree. If the GI Tanto and A1 are both just thick bars of metal, why does the A1 actually cut while the GI Tanto doesn't? Geometry, for one thing. The American tanto point is the most infernally stupid idea ever on a knife actually designed for multiple uses that may include skinning an animal. No matter how much you sharpen the GI Tanto, it's not going to perform as well as a Fällkniven that's been given a similar amount of sharpening attention, I'll bet you my hat on that.
We can all play the anything can be sharp game, but sharpness isn't enough. A screwdriver or a needle can be sharp, but it's still not a good knife. Chisel grinds are worthless in many tasks, especially ones that require precision and very direct cuts. As I said, sharpness isn't enough - cutting performance is what makes a knife different from just a piece of metal with a part of it sharpened.
As for the lamination, this is just a guess, but I figure that destruction is expected. When you join together something that normally isn't together, and then stress it a heck of a lot, it's going to come apart sooner or later. If it happens sooner, we have a problem. If it happens later, we probably don't have a problem.
Cobalt
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I agree that the american tanto tip is stupid looking and sharp transitions like that are hard to maintain sharpened. And yes it is more of a prybar, no doubt, but the A1 is also a little prybar, IMO, and not that there anything wrong with it. It is sharp and it is strong and that is what matters.
But make no mistake about it, when you make a blade sabre ground nearly half way down it's width that means that you are going from 0.24 inch thickness down to the edge in less than 3/4 of an inch. This means that a Flat ground blade of the same width would have to be 0.48 inch thick at the spine to equal the blade geomtry of the A1. I think it is safe to assume that anyone would call a 1.5 inch wide knife with a 1/2 inch spine, a prybar
as for laminations, I would love to see a CS San Mai blade and how far it can go under similar situations.
Sure, there's nothing wrong with a thick, prybar-like knife - as long as it does what a knife should do, cut things. Some designs are much better in that respect than others, and the design of the A1 certainly is better for cutting than that of the GI Tanto.
Agreed, would be interesting to see how a CS San Mai would do. Personally, I wouldn't expect anything amazing, especially considering the prices. How CS can price some of those things higher than the likes of Busse's BM I will never know. Who buys those San Mai things?
Agreed, would be interesting to see how a CS San Mai would do. Personally, I wouldn't expect anything amazing, especially considering the prices. How CS can price some of those things higher than the likes of Busse's BM I will never know. Who buys those San Mai things?
Cobalt
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I have been tempted often to get one, but the rediculous prices have shied me away. Oh, and if Falkniven made a 1/2 inch thick blade, I would buy 5
Elen: There are a lot of end users out in the bush who have had great results with the San Mai products. Yes, the prices are very high, but some folks seem to go back again and again to snap them up.
I have picked up a few in trades and I can tell you a few things that I've noticed. All of the San Mai knives held a decent edge and were, for the most part, simple to sharpen. I am well aware that I could not hope to break the tanto with my bare hands even if the Gods were shining down on me. The knives have never rusted despite massive use around water and humid conditions. Last year, I used my San Mai Tanto in the role of a baton, smacking the spine with a rubber mallet. Repeated hits caused zero damage and the knife split at least 30 pieces of good sized hickory. The original tanto still remains a classic in my book no matter what other people say.
The San Mai Trailmaster came into my collection late last year. Without question, this is a seriously tough knife. Two friends tried to break it by jabbing the blade into an oak stump and then prying with all their might. The blade stood that test and was then used to dig in rocky soil...no problems. I loaned the knife out to another buddy who took it on a hunting venture. The blade suffered some light blemishes and edge dents following use on bone, but zero critical damage. That knife was used around camp for all manner of chores. While I like my Basic 9 better than the San Mai TM, I'd have to say that the TM is more than up to the task of being a good, general use survival knife.
I had my reservations about a so called 'stainless' blade being that tough, but it is. Within normal use, this is an amazingly stout piece of cutlery, just like the A1. One must keep in mind that the Noss tests don't reflect normal useage in the field, they are merely a testament to power of the Fallkniven line.
I have picked up a few in trades and I can tell you a few things that I've noticed. All of the San Mai knives held a decent edge and were, for the most part, simple to sharpen. I am well aware that I could not hope to break the tanto with my bare hands even if the Gods were shining down on me. The knives have never rusted despite massive use around water and humid conditions. Last year, I used my San Mai Tanto in the role of a baton, smacking the spine with a rubber mallet. Repeated hits caused zero damage and the knife split at least 30 pieces of good sized hickory. The original tanto still remains a classic in my book no matter what other people say.
The San Mai Trailmaster came into my collection late last year. Without question, this is a seriously tough knife. Two friends tried to break it by jabbing the blade into an oak stump and then prying with all their might. The blade stood that test and was then used to dig in rocky soil...no problems. I loaned the knife out to another buddy who took it on a hunting venture. The blade suffered some light blemishes and edge dents following use on bone, but zero critical damage. That knife was used around camp for all manner of chores. While I like my Basic 9 better than the San Mai TM, I'd have to say that the TM is more than up to the task of being a good, general use survival knife.
I had my reservations about a so called 'stainless' blade being that tough, but it is. Within normal use, this is an amazingly stout piece of cutlery, just like the A1. One must keep in mind that the Noss tests don't reflect normal useage in the field, they are merely a testament to power of the Fallkniven line.
Stubai: I do agree that the higher-end CS San Mai knives are more than tough enough for normal non-abusive use, and perhaps they hold up well when abused, too. I know they're up to the task of being a functional survival knife, but that's not the only task they're up to. They're also up to the task of being more expensive than knives that are better and have better warranties. I believe the English language term is "overpriced."
Yeah, I think I would, too!
I have been tempted often to get one, but the rediculous prices have shied me away. Oh, and if Falkniven made a 1/2 inch thick blade, I would buy 5
Yeah, I think I would, too!
Cliff Stamp
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Care needs to be taken here, many people on the forums will use sharpness to mean general cutting ability. I think this adds to confusion and a better definition is to focus on the condition of the very edge and not its angle/thickness but that is not a common perspective.
-Cliff
Both the GI Tanto and the A1 are indeed tough. The A1 has a serious edge over
the GI in regards to function. Cutting, chopping and blade stiffness yet for such a stiff knife the A1 is still flexible adding to it's overall capability's beyond the call of duty.
Most of the very stiff blades I have tested did not flex very much before snapping .
The A1 has tremendous lateral strength even when one outer layer is broken.
I would like to see Fallkniven coment as well about the seperation of the layers.
but like Elen said. If enough force and strain is put on joined parts the will separate. I put 225 lbs on the knife and bounced on it so there was more then 225 lbs being applied to the blade before the outer layer gave way. I don't know the math formula for calculating a bouncing 225 lb load. Maybe Cliff does ?
the GI in regards to function. Cutting, chopping and blade stiffness yet for such a stiff knife the A1 is still flexible adding to it's overall capability's beyond the call of duty.
Most of the very stiff blades I have tested did not flex very much before snapping .
The A1 has tremendous lateral strength even when one outer layer is broken.
I would like to see Fallkniven coment as well about the seperation of the layers.
but like Elen said. If enough force and strain is put on joined parts the will separate. I put 225 lbs on the knife and bounced on it so there was more then 225 lbs being applied to the blade before the outer layer gave way. I don't know the math formula for calculating a bouncing 225 lb load. Maybe Cliff does ?
Cobalt
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here is my problem with the Cold Steel Trail master. If you look at Noss's pics of the A1's tang, you will notice the smooth transition from blade to tang, which eliminates stress risers.
Cold steel on the other hand, makes a square transition under the kraton where you cannot see. this is a severe stress riser and the likely place where I knife will snap in two. In the ic below, is a Busse Basic 9 with well radiused transition and a Cold Steel TM with a poorly radiused transition. Not good on such an expensive knife.
Cold steel on the other hand, makes a square transition under the kraton where you cannot see. this is a severe stress riser and the likely place where I knife will snap in two. In the ic below, is a Busse Basic 9 with well radiused transition and a Cold Steel TM with a poorly radiused transition. Not good on such an expensive knife.
Very nice test, they are getting better and better. For me it shows that a laminated stainless blade can show some serious toughness (in the colloquial sense of the term).
Under these conditions it is pretty much impossible to calculate the load. You would have to know how fast the weight (you) was traveling before the encounter of the blade and how far the blade bent, but you can safely assume that is substantially more than the static load. And you are definitely get a good feel of the support the blade is giving. For a viewer, a better way of increasing the load would be to move the weight (your foot) further away from the hold-point (where the blade is sandwiched between the woodpieces) to increase the leverage.
Ravaillac: The Gi Tanto doesn't seem very soft. Of course I don't have an RC tester to say for fact. My Cs Kukri Machete I can say it is very soft for a comparison. I base this from my use of it. The blade edge warps some under use telling me the steel is soft.