Falwell is very sick

[munk]

Hollow- thank you for your thoughtful words.






munk

 

[Nasty]

I get that message *so* often Kis...and not just about Keith.

 

[X-Head]

It's not surprising to me that a thread about Falwell being hospitalized would bring out all the Christian haters who see it as an opportunity to spew their hate.

It's a whole lot easier to hate someone you've never met. I don't hate Falwell. I find it sickening that most of the hate I see comes from the same people who claim to "celebrate diversity" and "embrace multiculturalism." They'll put on a big show of embracing SOME cultures, but don't expect them to embrace Christianity. That's just asking too much from people like that. The people who put "Hate is NOT a Family Value" bumper stickers on their cars have expressed their HATE for people like Jerry Falwell, James Dobson, and Pat Robertson more passionately than any of those guys have ever expressed toward anyone. Hypocrites abound outside the church walls every bit as much as inside.

 

[Joss]

It's not surprising to me that a thread about Falwell being hospitalized would bring out all the Christian haters who see it as an opportunity to spew their hate.

It's a whole lot easier to hate someone you've never met. I don't hate Falwell. I find it sickening that most of the hate I see comes from the same people who claim to "celebrate diversity" and "embrace multiculturalism." They'll put on a big show of embracing SOME cultures, but don't expect them to embrace Christianity. That's just asking too much from people like that. The people who put "Hate is NOT a Family Value" bumper stickers on their cars have expressed their HATE for people like Jerry Falwell, James Dobson, and Pat Robertson more passionately than any of those guys have ever expressed toward anyone. Hypocrites abound outside the church walls every bit as much as inside.

I'm the only one here that has been upfront about that, so I'll answer. I also hate Hitler and Staline, and Pol Pot and many others, and I'll have to admit that Falwell doesn't rank as high as those - and you're right, I have never met them either. Since this is a meaningless, weak argument, we won't even bother to answer it.

I don't celebrate diversity, and I don't embrasse multiculturalism. I believe Falwell would be happy to establish in the US the Christian equivalent to the Taliban's Afghanistan, and I hate him for that, as much as I hate them (and no, I haven't met them either).

 

[Spectre]

out all the Christian haters

There's really no need for that, friend.

I don't hate anyone, and I'm pretty sure that goes for most folks here- we just don't abide intolerance too well. Just FYI: there's a difference between "culture" and "Christianity", at least in the way that most Americans use those terms.

Hypocrites abound outside the church walls every bit as much as inside.

I think that's a handy slogan, but not very true.

Please don't think that because most of us have much less pity towards someone who showed his true colors as pathetic hate-monger that we hate all "Christians". The Bible I have says that Jesus was a pretty cool dude, who took flack 'cause he hung out with the party crowd...oh, yeah: he was pretty tolerant, too, except towards hypocrites.

John

The idea that religion and politics don't mix was invented
by the Devil to keep Christians from running their own
country.
Rev. Jerry Falwell, Sermon, July 4, 1976

PS- you know, there were a lot of other quotes from Falwell I was going to post, but I'm just not going to spew that hate here. Anyone feel free to search for 'em if you must. Here's one site: http://home.att.net/~jrhsc/devil.html

 

[munk]

I think Falwell is a flash point. The media and others assign him positions that are not his. How much 'hate' does he have? I don't know. I strongly suspect he does not condem the sinner, but the 'sin'- to use his understanding. I'm certain there is rhetoric of his that is taken out of context and looks terrible. I'm also certain he's said some assinine things.

But the real problem here is the new moral majority- the one that replaces Falwell. And they are not Christians- the word has changed, the politics, but have the same rigidity, bigotry, narrowmindedness. I think you should call him at the hospital, and tell him it's OK, to let go, the Moral Majority is in your hands now, and it's just as blind as it ever was.

Christianity is seen by these folks as the 'new Taliban'. If you want to know where that view is headed- look at secular old Europe, whose number of those professing to a belief in God is nearly the opposite of our own here in the US. It is not coincidence that in the absence of belief Europe has declined.
Half the people I respect most on this forum have weighed in with, "gee, If you can't say something nice."
-About Falwell- a man whose teachings they probably are not familiar with. But it is Falwell the image they can safely discount. No one's going to contradict them. It's FALWELL- the LITTLE HITLER. So it's OK.

I'm not a Christian in the sense I believe everything. But I am tired of the injustice we show to one another.

There are real choices being made for us in our new world, as old values are kicked aside for 'new improved ones'. We get 110 pound women dragging fire inhalation victims down stairwells- cause they aren't strong enough to do the fireman's carry. The training wall is lowered for police cadets in LA cause women can't jump the wall that has been in place for men. That's not a problem until they can't run fast enough to catch the perp that later rapes your wife.

Homosexuality is not the same as heterosexuality. It will not bring babies. I guess we have enough people on the planet now, so that's not a problem.
But if you looked at the real numbers of drug addiction, disease, longevity of relationships, general scoring on mental health indexies- they have a road to go that is not enviable to anyone. It is not the same. These are the new values, just as coercive as man has always made them. We are taught to believe all value choices are the same, are equal.

Don't tell me Falwell is the bad guy when we are the bad guy.

I would rather defend Billy Graham. Or Sister Theresa. Or even the Pope.
Anyone with more sympathy. It's a lot harder to defend the least amongst us, than it is the greatest.

Many of you have had experience with a coercive church and have found your own way. That is a good thing. Falwell to you represents this experience. I certainly understand that.

It really rubbed me the wrong way earlier. If anyone besides Hollow bothered to read my earlier post, you would know I was concerned about misplaced anger during this grief time. I had some of my own. I was pissed. I thought this thread was amongst the most jackassed backward movements we could make at this time.

But what do you know? I'll survive. So will you. Maybe Falwell will too. He has this in common with homosexuality; I probably don't agree with either one of the viewpoints, his or Gays, but I wouldn't hurt either one of them.


munk

 

[hollowdweller]

I think Falwell is a flash point. The media and others assign him positions that are not his. How much 'hate' does he have? I don't know. I strongly suspect he does not condem the sinner, but the 'sin'- to use his understanding. I'm certain there is rhetoric of his that is taken out of context and looks terrible. I'm also certain he's said some assinine things.

But the real problem here is the new moral majority- the one that replaces Falwell. And they are not Christians- the word has changed, the politics, but have the same rigidity, bigotry, narrowmindedness. I think you should call him at the hospital, and tell him it's OK, to let go, the Moral Majority is in your hands now, and it's just as blind as it ever was.

Christianity is seen by these folks as the 'new Taliban'. If you want to know where that view is headed- look at secular old Europe, whose number of those professing to a belief in God is nearly the opposite of our own here in the US. It is not coincidence that in the absence of belief Europe has declined.
Half the people I respect most on this forum have weighed in with, "gee, If you can't say something nice."
-About Falwell- a man whose teachings they probably are not familiar with. But it is Falwell the image they can safely discount. No one's going to contradict them. It's FALWELL- the LITTLE HITLER. So it's OK.

I'm not a Christian in the sense I believe everything. But I am tired of the injustice we show to one another.

There are real choices being made for us in our new world, as old values are kicked aside for 'new improved ones'. We get 110 pound women dragging fire inhalation victims down stairwells- cause they aren't strong enough to do the fireman's carry. The training wall is lowered for police cadets in LA cause women can't jump the wall that has been in place for men. That's not a problem until they can't run fast enough to catch the perp that later rapes your wife.

Homosexuality is not the same as heterosexuality. It will not bring babies. I guess we have enough people on the planet now, so that's not a problem.
But if you looked at the real numbers of drug addiction, disease, longevity of relationships, general scoring on mental health indexies- they have a road to go that is not enviable to anyone. It is not the same. These are the new values, just as coercive as man has always made them. We are taught to believe all value choices are the same, are equal.

Don't tell me Falwell is the bad guy when we are the bad guy.

I would rather defend Billy Graham. Or Sister Theresa. Or even the Pope.
Anyone with more sympathy. It's a lot harder to defend the least amongst us, than it is the greatest.

Many of you have had experience with a coercive church and have found your own way. That is a good thing. Falwell to you represents this experience. I certainly understand that.

It really rubbed me the wrong way earlier. If anyone besides Hollow bothered to read my earlier post, you would know I was concerned about misplaced anger during this grief time. I had some of my own. I was pissed. I thought this thread was amongst the most jackassed backward movements we could make at this time.

But what do you know? I'll survive. So will you. Maybe Falwell will too. He has this in common with homosexuality; I probably don't agree with either one of the viewpoints, his or Gays, but I wouldn't hurt either one of them.


munk

Good post.

 

[PherrousWeal]

"You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to PherrousWeal again."

What does this mean? Does this have to do with the little green things on the sig line of our posts?? Is there a place I can read abt this new BF feature?

Thx, been away 4 a minute.

Keith

 

[Steely_Gunz]

Keith, the rep point system came to be during the last big BF upgrade. basically you can give + or - reputation points depending on what you feel about a posters post. Around here we give a lot of + points...'cause the cantina is full of good guys as you know You give points by clicking on that little scales icon in the upper right corner of the post. You then select "approve" or "disapprove" and can leave a little note (be sure to sign you name). You can check the number of rep points you've gotten as well as the notes made by the rep giver by going to the user CP at the top of the forum screen. Once you reach a certain level you'll get another little green box. some call them chiclets. some call them cacti. They're just for fun. we've all built each other's rep up for the heck of it. It's kinda fun to watch your cacti sprout lil' buddies. Munk calls them (along with the different yahoo, msn, and ICQ icons you can add to your profile) "South American General metals" as our chests now look as if they have been all pinned up with awards and recognition
It's good to have you back. you'll have a plethora of cacti in no time

Jake

 

[Kismet]

You can't post words like that about a forum member. Besides, it's physically impossible to accomplish.

Be well and safe.

 

[X-Head]

I don't celebrate diversity, and I don't embrasse multiculturalism.

Glad to hear that, at least.

I believe Falwell would be happy to establish in the US the Christian equivalent to the Taliban's Afghanistan, and I hate him for that, as much as I hate them (and no, I haven't met them either).

Let's give you the benefit of the doubt and say Falwell DOES want a Christian version of a Taliban government in the US. If that ever happened, I'd be one of the first ones rounded up if they knew what I believe. So I would have a lot to loose (my freedom), and therefore don't want to see this happen either.

However, there is NO MORAL EQUIVALENCY between Falwell and the Taliban. Falwell does not advocate the use of terror (blowing people up, hacking off heads at the neck, gassing entire towns, etc.) to achieve his political goals. He does not kidnap people or use extortion. He does not threaten his own nation or any others with a "holy war", or claim that all unbelievers must convert or die. Nor does he advocate keeping women illiterate and uneducated, or executing women for supposed adultery unless they can produce 4 male witnesses to claim she was raped. He doesn't advocate making beardless men into criminals, and he's never expoused a viewpoint of women as personal property.

That being said, I think his followers and detractors alike take him way too seriously. I believe he means what he says, but he's not a government official, and his "Moral Majority" fan club is not even a majority among Christians, let alone a majority among the US population. He's not a threat to anyone. Pray for him if you want to, ignore him if you don't. I don't agree with everything he says (nor do I agree with everything anyone else says either), but I give him mad props for having a sack of balls bigger than any of his PC-minded critics to say the radical stuff he says and let the chips fly, and not give a damn what anybody else thinks about it. How many of his critics dare to be that radical, or to advocate ideas way outside the mainstream realm of political correctness? The answer is, none of them. They all more or less echo each other, regurgitating the same tired--not to mention WRONG--ideas. Falwell at least has the "courage of his convictions," and I wish I had more of that myself.

 

[hollowdweller]

I find it sickening that most of the hate I see comes from the same people who claim to "celebrate diversity" and "embrace multiculturalism." They'll put on a big show of embracing SOME cultures, but don't expect them to embrace Christianity.

I think you are off base. I embrace diversity and multiculturalisim and am pretty liberal on most issues. I also am a Christian. And I started the thread because although I may not agree with Falwell 100% he's part of the culture and really he was only doing the best he could to promote what he believed, and I'll be sad if he dies.

I think you should argue and disagree with people who have difft. opinions all you want. That's what the US is supposed to be about. But I think it's wrong to demonize or hate the other side. We got too much of that these days and isn't loving people you think you are wrong basically the core of the belief?

 

[Yvsa]

I think that as much peace as we can have at this time of shock and mourning would be best for everyone all around.
I know I'm not over either Bill or Rusty's demise and I'm just not ready for any arguing right now. Please think before you post possible controversial or argumentive posts for a while please.

Things will get back to normal soon enough methinks.